Speaker: Welcome to The Heart-Led Business Show, where compassion meets commerce and leaders lead with love. Join your host, Tom Jackobs, as he delves into the insightful conversations with visionary business leaders who defy the status quo, putting humanity first and profit second. From heartfelt strategies to inspiring stories, this podcast is your compass in the world of conscious capitalism.

So buckle up and let your heart guide your business journey. 

Tom Jackobs: Well, welcome back to the Heart-Led Business Show, where passion meets purpose. And today we have two true trailblazers in the construction cosmos, in the wealth management cosmos. We have Ken Rusk and John Skomski.

Both of them have written a new book that we'll be talking about, a little bit about today called Rock Stars and Rainmakers, and have given back to the community to make sure that books go into libraries, which is just a wonderful thing. And so today's conversation is all about putting that heart into business and building wealth as well. So welcome to the show, guys. 

Ken Rusk: Thanks. Thanks for having us. Appreciate you, appreciate you and us being here. We're, looking forward to a great conversation today.

John Skomski: Excited to be here. 

Tom Jackobs: Yeah. Great. I'm, I'm excited to have you guys here as well. It's always good to have more heads than one, so, we can really get into the heart of the issue as well.

So, Ken, tell us a little bit about, what your definition is of a heart-led business

Ken Rusk: Well, I, I think it goes beyond the normal answers that you probably might expect, like making sure you do right by your customer, making sure you're, you know, you're morally and ethically sound in the business practices that you run, all those types of things.

In my opinion, what makes it a heart-led business is if the entrepreneur, the owner of the business, manager, the boss, whoever you might wanna call them, that they really do have a stake in their employees' futures.

And they do have a genuine interest in how well the people in their organization are doing. What does their life look like, and how are you helping them get there? And I think that's something that a lot more businesses could really pay attention to because that has a direct effect on loyalty, longevity, you know, the revolving door of your business. But it's also a really fun way to run a company, is to see your people succeeding and knowing that you had a, you had a part in making that happen.

Tom Jackobs: Yeah, absolutely. It's always good to, you know, you look back at your roster of employees and you're like, "I haven't added or lost an employee in, like, five years. This is amazing." Like, everybody kinda sticks around. There must be something good going on here, right? That's awesome. And John, what's your definition of a heart-led business? 

John Skomski: Yeah. So, you know, Ken, I think hit on one key aspect that I find a lot of similarity in. Where I immediately go in my head is the word empathy comes to mind, but not necessarily in the sense of what are the employees feeling, although that's certainly part of it. But empathy in the sense of what are your employees trying to get out of life?

Why are they at your company? What are they there for? And not the paycheck, no, not the gotta do something. But what are they trying to get, and how are they trying to thrive? And if you show up heart first, right? Understanding and helping your employees draw the connection between what they really, truly want out of life beyond just a paycheck, and then giving them a pathway to actually do that, you're now leading with a, I would say, a culture-oriented empathy, which is here's the pathway forward. And so, yes, as Ken said, you want the right ethos, you want the right kind of table stakes, honestly, in 2026 that we should be doing just to function as a reasonably sound company. But what sets, a truly great company apart, a truly great owner, boss, or manager, is one that is able to articulate, help articulate the employee's vision and give them a path through the company to take ownership of it and really thrive. 

Tom Jackobs: Yeah. You know, I've found that to be absolutely true with employees. When they are bought into the company, when they're being taken care of, when their goals are being met, then there's less stress. They're able to perform well and, and do, do really great work. And they stick around as well, so that's always a good thing.

So, Ken why don't you tell us a little bit about new book and the relationship that you guys have in authoring that? 

Ken Rusk: Yeah, the book is called Rock Stars and Rainmakers: If You Build It, They Will Come. And what, what it's really about is, you know, I have a lot of friends that own companies, and I also travel quite a bit, and we get to see, John and I get to see the good, the bad, and the ugly when it comes to business culture.

And it really shocks me how little people pay attention to the cover. Not necessarily the cover of the book, which is their business, but the pages inside and how those play out what the cover allegedly talks about. And so we decided to write a book that, you know, it's pretty simple because we use these plug-and-play tools that you can, you can do this afternoon, okay?

To make your culture better and to, to really change the whole momentum of your company. And having synergy between, you know, the wants and needs of your people and the wants and needs of the company is what really creates that momentum. And it all starts with, you know, what's your company look like?

What's it feel like? What's it sound like? What's it smell like? What is it, you know, what's the atmosphere that you have in your organization, and how is that either attracting people or repelling people when they walk in the front door? And again, you'd be amazed at how many people don't pay attention to that.

All they do is say, "Wow, I really can't hire anybody," or, " Nobody sticks around." And so John and I were like, "Well, why don't we solve that problem?" And he brings an amazing perspective because first off, he's a lot younger than I am, which is great. but he also brings the financial side of things, which is a big worry for people.

It's a big worry for employees. And so we decided to mix my type of, you know, blue-collar grit culture building with his, you know, future planning and financial, his world. And, it came out great. It's a book that I think everyone will love. It's, it's simple, it's easy to read.

And, again, you could either start this as an entrepreneur yourself, or you could hand this to your, what we call your chief cool officer and say, "Start putting this into play," and you'll see a, a difference in a matter of days.

Tom Jackobs: I want that title, CCO, right? Chief Cool 

Ken Rusk: Yeah. 

Tom Jackobs: Officer. 

Ken Rusk: Yeah, you can have it. You're your own chief cool officer, so there you go.

Tom Jackobs: Awesome. Well, I'm guessing, John, you're the chief rock star with the, guitars in the background there. So is that... So you're the rock star and Ken's the rainmaker. 

John Skomski: Sure, we'll go with that. No, actually, I think Ken is probably more prolific, in terms of instrument playing than I am. I do enjoy some things. But yeah, you know, it's interesting because, you know, having hosted a podcast myself for over 100 episodes and kind of seeing the life cycle of a podcast and hosting and everything that goes involved in that, that's how Ken and I met. And the process of, of writing the book that is now Rock Stars and Rainmakers, initially was just simply a conversation that he and I had as he guested on my show probably three, four years ago now. And that conversation turned into a, a repeat, guest appearance, which then turned into some in-person, meetings and conversations and filmings, which then turned into, "Hey, you know what?

We kind of got this thing going and clearly there's a need." You know, when we first started talking about this, think about, you know, 2022, '23, early coming out of COVID, you know, the workplace was completely upended. Nobody knew what was going on. And, and we're like, "We got, we got so much to say," and we, you know, in a little bit of a, a self-aggrandizing way, we think we're pretty damn good at it, so let's, let's talk about it. And that turned into what we did on stage and still do on stage for, for companies and, then, there was this one phone call where he's like, "I think, I think this is the book. This is, this is the next book." People have been telling me, okay, you know, as Ken, Ken's like, you know, wrote Blue Collar Cash, went bestseller, did... spoke to a lot of people. In fact, some surprising audiences that really resonated with his first book. now we're gonna talk about how to do this within the company, and I'm kind of just like, "Yeah, cool. Good. Good for you. I'm glad you figured that out." and he's like, "No, no, no. We're, we're, we're going to do this."

And I said, "I'm detecting the plural here." And so that was this kind of fun realization that I think we're gonna co-author this book. And then from there, you know, we were off to the races and anyone who's written a book knows that, it whatever you think it's gonna take you, it's gonna take you longer, and there's gonna be more steps involved.

And just when you think you've got it and it looks great, the editor's gonna step in and, and absolutely crush your heart and tell you to rewrite something that you thought was amazing, and it's all part of it. But this is really the 

Tom Jackobs: Yeah. 

John Skomski: Results, not just two combined, you know, careers, but four, three, four years of hundreds of hours of conversations, writing, speaking, and I think it's really gonna be something that, that owners, bosses, managers can resonate with. 

Tom Jackobs: Yeah. And, and so tell me though, I know you wrote it around the COVID or after COVID time, so it must translate well for remote work as well in terms of if you have a remote, company. How do, how does that, 'Cause obviously when you have people in one space, it's really good culture and, and kind of building that culture.

How do you translate that to a remote workforce? 

Ken Rusk: Well, you know, that's a great question. There are 33 million small businesses in the United States today, and most of them are getting back to the office, especially if you're doing something with your hands, right? 

Tom Jackobs: Yeah, of course. 

Ken Rusk: But you know, if you've ever been on a Zoom call where you just dread getting on the Zoom call because it's the manager's weekly, you know, their weekly shakedown of all their employees.

Are you alive? Are you sitting at your desk? Are you in your pajamas? You know, what are you doing? Then you know that is torture for the people on the other end of the call. And so it, it does translate because, you know, culture doesn't exist in a vacuum, in just in four walls. You can create it in any instance.

 You know, the energy that you bring to the phone call, the way you ask the questions, the motivations and the financial contests and those types of things. The opposite of an offsite, which it used to be, we're all in the office, now let's go to an offsite.

Well, the opposite of that is going to an onsite, right? So then you get... You gather people up and you take them to a place, even if it's not your office. And so there's still some amazing culture things that you can do. You just have to adjust. And, and, and we put... You know, that, that's in there.

This, this book can teach anybody how to create great culture, and also to do it from the very beginning so that you're not blowing through people. One of the things that John and I learned early on in our research is, you know, getting a person hired in, training them, going through that whole process, and then losing them is at least a $4,000 problem per employee.

And in some cases, if it's, 

Tom Jackobs: That seems low. 

Ken Rusk: A doctor or a surgeon or whatever, it can be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. 

Tom Jackobs: Yeah. 

Ken Rusk: But for the purposes of us not being challenged, we stuck with the $4,000 number, although it could be a lot higher. And if you add that up, 

Tom Jackobs: It seems that it should be a lot higher. Yeah. 

Ken Rusk: Right, if you add that up over hundreds of employees, you're talking, you know, that's real money for any business.

So, 

Tom Jackobs: Yeah. 

Ken Rusk: Yeah, it can happen not just in an office, but, in a remote setting as well.

Tom Jackobs: Oh, awesome. So, John, how do you bring in the financial management piece of it into the book and, and the education for the employees?

John Skomski: So, one of the chapters is exclusively dedicated to that very topic, And, it's interesting, one of the top one to three, depending on which poll or which survey you're looking at, it's either the first or second or sometimes the third stressor that an employee experiences is something around financial wellness and, or lot there and, large groups, large quantities of employees, even those who earn beyond six figures, by the way, this isn't, you know, relegated to the lower earning stratosphere. They're concerned, and it has a real tangible, one survey we cite in the book that actually breaks down number of hours on average a financially stressed individual will spend during the workday, i.e., Time away from their role while still at their desk, trying to figure out how to pay this medical bill, what to deal with this credit card balance, how am I, gonna save for college, like all of these things. So it's very real. And so I, think part of it is just owning that, and it's getting better, I'd say, in terms of employers understanding that that is a true need that has to be addressed. But also, it's providing the conduit to the resources and the thought processes that will help them solve that problem. And so what we definitely don't want, and if my compliance department is listening, what we definitely, definitely don't want is a bunch of employers now feeling like they have to function as financial planners within their companies.

It's not what we're talking about. 

Tom Jackobs: Yeah. 

John Skomski: But what we are talking about is creating the conversations that facilitate employee themselves finding the solutions to those concerns and giving them the tools to do so, whether that is more education. I go into companies, and talks on, you know, "Here's 12, here's 20 different things you can start doing tomorrow to help improve your finances."

That's one option. Certainly retirement plans, matches, things like that. Those are, again, though, kind of table stakes in today's environment. You should be doing that. And then when you sit down with your employees, and this is especially important in the kind of the manager role, where you maybe have a team of five or 10 people, is understanding, to the degree they're willing to open up, understanding how... like, what aspects of their financial wellness or lack thereof is primary for them, and then connecting them to the right resources. "Oh, I see you're really struggling with financial, tuition for, your child's in college. have you considered this?" So just being kind of summarily aware of things. But it's amazing how many times those don't even get brought up in conversation. And, you know, we think, "Well, they got a 401, so, I mean, what else do they want me to do?" You know? "Double their salary?" And it's, there's so many little things that nudge people who are worried in the right direction. And, there's another stat that, I think it's offhand, I think it was either 40 or 50%, if an employee's stressed financially, they are 40 or 50% more likely to leave and try to find some other company meets some of those concerns. And it's like, again, something-- y- you don't have to be a rockstar and rainmaker here. In fact, you can do in terms of doing something great and incredible, all you gotta do is a few really easy steps, and you can be that to your employees, create a lot of loyalty, and improve, really end up solving or helping facilitate the solving of one of their core issues.

Ken Rusk: And, you 

Tom Jackobs: Yeah. And 

Ken Rusk: wanna, I, I wanna add to that if I can just real quick. So, you know, John said something really important there. If an employee is financially stressed, they may end up leaving. And guess what? It's not always leaving for more money. It's just leaving because they can't solve their problem where they're sitting.

And so, you know, the employer who takes the time to say, "You are in control of the rest of your life. You are in control of what it looks like. You're in control of your financial situation. Let me help you guide you to those answers." They might not even be at a place where they make more money, but they feel like they're more in control.

And how silly is that, that you lost somebody, not because of the money, but you lost them because they felt out of control or without control or, you know, they felt lost themselves. That's a self-inflicted wound right there. And that's why, you know, what John's saying is so important.

It's not always even the dollars as much as it is, "Do I feel like I'm in control here?"

Tom Jackobs: Yeah. I can also imagine that it's a sense of being, seen and heard and understood. Like when, when you have a heavy issue, like financial problems, you know, weighing you down, if somebody just came up to you and said, you know, "Are you okay?" and out of real concern and real heart, like the supervisor doing that or the manager, that can make a real difference in an employee's life.

Whether it's a financial stress or some other type of stress, just knowing that somebody is noticing 

John Skomski: Mm-hmm. 

Tom Jackobs: when those things happen. 

Ken Rusk: Yeah, you're exactly right. And one of the things that John said earlier again is, you know, financial wellbeing is always one of the top one or two or three. Well, guess what the other ones are that compete with that? Recognition. Okay? And recognition comes in a lot of different ways. It could be just noticing someone like you just said, or putting their name up in lights.

But in either case, I'm being seen, I'm being heard, I'm being cared for, I'm being concerned over. Those are winners, okay? Those are winning, pieces and parts of what we wrote in this book. And so if you think about those two competing for the top spot, you know, financial, awareness, control, and/or being heard, seen, or concerned over, that's it.

And there's lots of ways to take both of those situations on, as John just said.

Tom Jackobs: Yeah. Now, how do you weave in kind of the heart approach to this?

Like the way that we've been talking anyway, it's been very heart-led in terms of how the, the managers and the company kind of treats the employees and helps them bring them up. But how are you specifically talking in the book about being heart-led or are there some other anecdotes that, you can share with us? 

Ken Rusk: Well, I would just say this. You know, most of the people that walk, on the other side of that door, there's a hallway with 200 people in it, and most of the people over there know that this company is as much aware of and/or concerned about their future as they are. At least I would hope that that would be the case.

And I know it is. And so therefore, if I get to walk around these hallways and know at any moment in time that she's three months away from paying off her car, and this one over here is two months away from going to Spain to see her cousin, and this one over here is, getting plans together for a new garage, and this one over here...

You see what I mean? This one here has got a visa that is almost paid for, and she can't wait because then she wants to get a above ground pool for her kids. If I know that, it is so much more fun to go to work every day because these, these things, these, these goals, these time pathways are actually posted on the wall out there for everyone to see.

Tom Jackobs: Oh wow. 

Ken Rusk: And so if I'm walking around this building, having the awareness of progression of the people within it, that the people are... they're winning for themselves first and for the company second, which is the way it should be, and that's a whole another subject. But if I get to walk around the hallways and engage people that way, there is nothing but warm feelings and heart and energy.

And I mean, it's like, you know, one of those cartoons where you see the little person in there, they just warm up to something. It's a new idea. It's a new thing. So that's my whole buzz. I mean, people ask me what I do for a living, and I'm like, "Well, I try to focus on making sure all the people within the company are winning," okay?

And very specifically. That's where the heart comes from because now you can talk about things about giving back. You can talk about, you know, involving people in charity, time, talent, and treasure, all those types of things. And you are creating a company that has nothing but this ethos of good feelings and moving forward and progression and, you know, and winning.

And I think that's what people should endeavor to find in any culture that they decide to work in. 

Tom Jackobs: Yeah, yeah. John, how about you? Like, what's, what's the heart-led approach that is in the book for you? 

John Skomski: So it shows up, I think, in different manifestations. One that comes to mind and ties back into something Ken mentioned earlier is on the recognition piece of it. Cause that does dual for top one or two, stressor, problem, you know, and source of anxiety for employees. And in a broader sense, and I also kind of in my business specifically where I'm working with my clients significantly more than I am with my employees on a day-to-day, because I'm sitting down in meetings with, with that my, you know, clients who are retired or about to retire. And, and, being seen, whether a client or an employee, is such a core human element to just being, to existing, and not just existing, but thriving. And, I think, you know, you mentioned it too, is just walking by someone in the hallway, "Hey, how are you doing?" But not this the, "Hey, how's it going?" But the how are you doing? How, how are things? 

Tom Jackobs: How are you doing it? Yeah. 

John Skomski: And the interesting note is, is if you have not this into your culture, it's going to take a little bit of time for people 

Tom Jackobs: Yeah. 

John Skomski: To get used to this.

So the first month might be, you know, is 

Tom Jackobs: They have to look at you weird. 

John Skomski: Is did he get a cancer diagnosis? Like, what's going on here? Like, they're gonna... And then it's like, is, is he gonna fire me? Is he gonna fire... That, so we're gonna go through like this cycle of adapting recognition, and that, and that's okay.

That's part of it. 

Tom Jackobs: Yeah. 

John Skomski: But at the end of the day, people want to be seen, and in some cases, and we get into this in the book, not everyone wants their name in lights. And so it's having the EQ to know, okay, this individual wants to be recognized with their name in lights, with fireworks, and great fanfare, and this person literally just wants you individually as the owner, boss, or manager to acknowledge them one-on-one and that is all. And I think that is where so much heart-led business can show up is, is not just understanding that recognition is so core, but then taking it to the next level and tailoring it to the individuals on your team. And now suddenly, "Oh my God, she sees me, he sees me. They understand." And it, it just, it 

Tom Jackobs: And they're not scared anymore, 

John Skomski: and they're not scared anymore, and they don't think you're dying anymore, and it's a great thing. 

Tom Jackobs: Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah, it's very true too. Like, anytime that there's a change in the business, and when I was working in corporate, it was always like, "Ugh, here we go again." And then, and then it would, it would play out, and sometimes it would be really cool, and other times it ob- obviously would be one of those eye rolls in terms of, what are we doing this for? It's taking care of the employees I think is one of the biggest advantages that a business can hold over their competitors. And especially if a competitor isn't taking care of their employees and they're just churning through them, then, you know, you're ripe to take over their business.

Ken Rusk: Yeah. And I think, I wanna get a little more specific here because a lot of people will say, "Yeah, you gotta take care of your employees." I mean, that's like, it's something that everyone acknowledges, okay? It should happen. The other thing is, "Well, man, I don't have time to do all that stuff.

I mean, I don't have time to get involved in all... You know, I'm, I'm out there, I'm out there trying to be the rainmaker for this company, okay?" And what John and I attempted to do here was, these are simple plug-and-play things. 

John Skomski: Mhm. 

Ken Rusk: This is not, this is not, you know, 20,000 feet of theoretical psychology of business.

I mean, this isn't like, you know, you have to go out and, and get committees to study the results of the... You're talking about simple things that you can do on a daily basis. And these are also things you can hand off to your business, your office manager, or whoever is helping you get this thing done. You can hand this off to, if, if your spouse is your business partner, it's fine.

It's simple plug-and-play things, and people go, "Well, if it's so simple and plug and play, you know, why should I...?" Well, because you're not doing it. You know what I mean? 

Tom Jackobs: Right. 

Ken Rusk: If it was that easy, right? I mean, what, if I know you think this is simple and plug and play, and I get that, but why aren't you doing it?

Okay? And, and that's where the rubber meets the road for us, is these are things that can be done in an afternoon that can start the process. And you don't need to become some deep psychologist in order to make this happen. You just need to recognize that there are things that you do or don't do every day that affect the attitudes and the outlooks and the longevity and the loyalty of the people that are in your building.

And you can fix them really quickly.

Tom Jackobs: Absolutely, especially if they're small and practical and it's just easy. And it sounds like the book is full of those practical things that the managers and the business owners can do to bring up that culture and take care of their employees. That's awesome. Now, I can't believe our time has gone by so quickly.

It's a lot easier with three people on the interview, so thank you for that.

Ken, why don't you tell us a little bit about the charity that you have, set up and then, how people can get to the book as well.

Ken Rusk: Well, I gotta tell you, this is a charity that we ran into. It's not, it's not my charity. It's a charity that has existed for a while. It's called Worthy Books, like, like I am worthy. And you can go to it at worthybooks.org, I believe is the, you can Google and look it up. But the cool thing about what these people do is they try to get books that have impact, and not just any book, but books that have impact.

They try to get them into libraries across the country, public libraries. I didn't realize this, but public libraries don't do a very good job of stocking business books, apparently. And so, you know, John and I are entrepreneurs and, you know, the first thing that any entrepreneur should do is not only be successful, create successful people, but then also give back.

And so part of our mission here is to put a copy of Rock Stars and Rainmakers in every public library in the country. And so for all of the entrepreneurs that are out there listening to the show, we would love you to sponsor one book, 10 books, 100 books. I had someone yesterday sponsor 1,000 books. And we're looking to get one of these business books in every public library in the country, of which there are 18,000. We have about a third of that done already. And, we're really excited about this because this is a way for everyone out there who's ever made a nickel and ever been successful to say, "You know what? I'm gonna have impact in my state. I'm gonna put a book in the public library in my county or in my city or in my town," and, or, "I'm gonna do that 100 times." And, it is 100% write off. I mean, it, it is a charitable thing. You, you actually get a 501[c][3] letter. And, 

Tom Jackobs: Thanks. 

Ken Rusk: Yeah, we're looking forward to having everybody get involved in that.

We've had so many people have done it already, and they're happy to do it, and they're like, "Where... How much and where? Where do I sign up?" Because I wish I knew some of the things in this book when I was a 21-year-old entrepreneur, and, it would've helped me avoid a lot of pitfalls and a lot of, you know, problems that I could have had, challenges I could have faced that I would've gotten around, easy and for a lot less money.

So we're hoping everyone gets involved and does this. It's worthybooks.org

Tom Jackobs: Awesome.

And John, tell us how listeners can get ahold of you and learn more about what you're doing. 

John Skomski: Yeah. So, most recently the, the current, focus, outside of what I do on a day-to-day with my clients is, the show Retirement Is a Joke. And in the show, yeah, you can laugh, it's okay. The idea there is quite simple, is we spend 60, 65 years of our lives preparing for the last 15, 20, 25, if we're lucky. And by the time we get there, and I see this, you know, I see both sides. I see the most unfortunate situations, and then I see it done really well, and I've literally had probably 10,000 conversations since, starting this career, many years ago. And so the idea here is very simple, is we're just unpacking what life after work looks like. And not just really the financial piece, that's again, kind of, yeah, you need money. But what are you doing 

Tom Jackobs: Right. 

John Skomski: On a Tuesday morning, after a 40-year-long career of doing one thing over and over and over, and, and then educating yourself before that to get to that point to do that. And, my goal is to have a body of work that we can then some conclusions on what might be, a really good retirement, what is retirement, and, and challenge some cultural norms around that, and what expectations might be 

Tom Jackobs: Yeah. 

John Skomski: so we're just getting that. We're filming episodes literally this next week here to get that on the ground, and I'm excited to see where that goes. 

Tom Jackobs: That's awesome. Great.

And Ken, how about you? The day job that you have?

Ken Rusk: We're doing a lot of great things. We have a, a charity called the Comfort, Peace and Freedom Foundation, where we're helping veterans. I have veterans that work here in our company and, we're doing real-life things, not just, you know... They, they say you could hand somebody a leg or you could give them an arm or you could pay off their mortgage, which all those things are very important, they're all great.

Give them a house, that's fantastic. However, who's working on their mental state? So we have a lot of things going on there where we're trying to educate, returning veterans and, we're doing some really cool things all over the country with getting their mindset in the right place so that they make good decisions and not bad decisions.

And, Rock Stars and Rain Makers is even a part of that because we'd love to sponsor young people getting back into, you know, plumbing, carpentry, electrical work, welding, and starting their own company is very important. And, and, Rock Stars and Rain Makers teaches them how to do that without making mistakes, and, that's what I love about the book.

The book is available right now for pre-order, on all the different places you might imagine, you know, Amazon and all those places. So we're really excited about it and, you'll be hearing a lot more from it, about it in the future. You can also go to our Instagram pages. Mine's, @kenruskofficial, and you'll see a, a lot of stuff about the book in there, so little teasers.

So yeah, we're looking forward to the release and, and where that takes us from there.

Tom Jackobs: Awesome. Well again, thank you guys so much for coming onto the show and sharing your wisdom of how to make, happy employees in heartfelt ways. And I really do appreciate you both, for coming on the show.

Ken Rusk: You got it. Thanks for having us. 

John Skomski: Yeah, thanks for having us. It's great. 

Ken Rusk: Appreciate, being here. 

Tom Jackobs: Absolutely.

And thank you show listeners for listening in or tuning into the show today. We really do appreciate it. So make sure you're checking out everything that Ken and John are doing. We're gonna put all those links down in the show notes, so make sure you're checking that out. And also while you're down there in the show notes, you might want to, I don't know, share the show with a friend or family member that could use the advice shared on today's show, 'cause that's what really smart and considerate listeners do. So until next time, lead with your heart.

Speaker 2: You've been listening to The Heart-Led Business Show, hosted by Tom Jackobs. Join us next time for another inspiring journey into the heart of business.