Speaker 0:01

Welcome to The Heart-Led Business Show, where compassion meets commerce and leaders lead with love. Join your host, Tom Jackobs, as he delves into the insightful conversations with visionary business leaders who defy the status quo, putting humanity first and profit second. From heartfelt strategies to inspiring stories, this podcast is your compass in the world of conscious capitalism. So buckle up and let your heart guide your business journey.

Meet Dr. Connor Ziegler

Tom Jackobs 0:36

Welcome back to the Heart-Led Business Show. And today, we're diving deep into the remarkable journey of Dr. Connor Ziegler, a board-certified orthopedic surgeon and the visionary founder of Vitality Orthopedics and Biologics. From humble Midwestern beginnings to pioneering patient-centered orthopedic care, Connor's story is a testament to hard work and heart. So join us today as we explore the soul behind the scalpel and the passion fueling his practice. Connor, welcome to the show.

Connor Ziegler 1:07

Oh, thanks for having me, Tom.

Tom Jackobs 1:08

I'm really excited to, have you on the show. And we've been-- you were at my last event, and that was, first time that we met, and I'm impressed with what you've built in terms of your new practice. And so I'm really excited to dive into that.

Defining Heart-Led Care

Tom Jackobs 1:23

But of course, the first question I always to ask of all my guests is, what's your definition of a heart-led business?

Connor Ziegler 1:30

thank you so much for having me. it's really a practice or a business? that's centered on the patient. I treat all my patients like family. I want them to experience a better or a higher level of care than they've had anywhere else. And that's really my mission every patient that steps through the door, is to make them feel heard, to make them feel like they got a lot of value out of their time with me, and to make them feel like they're part of my family. every office visit is individualized. I try to meet people where they are. I try to listen to them, hear their goals, and direct my care around that.

Tom Jackobs 2:04

Wow. Yeah. treating people like your family, it's not a dysfunctional family, of course.

Connor Ziegler 2:08

It's a good family house.

Tom Jackobs 2:10

Right. But that's, that's great, in terms of just getting into the hearts and the minds of the patients.

Why Leave The Old Model

Tom Jackobs 2:18

what's interesting and what kind of struck me when you were saying that is, where did that come from in terms of that philosophy? Was it because of some issues that happened in a previous job or career that didn't allow you to do the same thing? Or how did that whole feeling of, being more heart-led with your patients, come from?

Connor Ziegler 2:36

No, that's exactly, uh, correct. so I've been in practice for almost eight years. I had a very busy and frankly successful private practice, in a fairly large-sized group, as part owner of the group. And I'd say about five years in, I really reached a ceiling in the value that I could offer people. I did my 10,000 hours as a surgeon. I'm very proficient at what I do, and was delivering good care, helped a lot of people along the way. But in a 10 to 15-minute office visit, seeing 30-plus patients a day, 100 patients a week, I wasn't able to address everything that I wanted to. a lot of visits were very rushed, and people were making big decisions in 10 minutes. And I just realized that if I ever want to provide the level of care, that I wanted to give to my patients, I'd have to exit that model. And, a lot of risk involved with that, but, but I wanted to start a practice where, I could really provide a concierge level of care.

Tom Jackobs 3:37

Wow. Yeah. 10 minutes. that, that's actually being generous. the last doctor visit I had, even though I'm in the US, was like three minutes. yeah, it's crazy that, these big decisions that people are making, especially if it's surgery, that it's, a very quick and, a lot of... I guess a lot of times we have to go home and think about it and make those decisions, but it'd be nice to have that sit down with an expert get all the pros and the cons and just have that human-to-human connection.

Connor Ziegler 4:08

Absolutely.

Launching A New Practice

Tom Jackobs 4:09

in your new practice then, what was that transition like going from, the big practice as a group and then going out on your own? What was that, that transition like for you?

Connor Ziegler 4:19

it involved a lot of soul-searching, number one, because it wasn't that I was leaving a bad situation. I was leaving a successful one. So on paper, you could say that doesn't make much sense. but, I knew that if I wanted to evolve the care that I could deliver, if I wanted to, provide more value to my community, I would have to make that move and take the risk. So it was very intentional. a lot of planning. finding the right location, designing the right office, doing the appropriate marketing and just honestly delivering, for my patients. And the best way to build a practice is just giving exceptional care and developing word of mouth from that. so it, it's-- it was a passion along the way. I felt as though I was, really living out my purpose as a doctor, by making the move and, it's been positive. I've been very happy with it

Tom Jackobs 5:11

Oh, that's great. how long did it take to make that, transition for you?

Connor Ziegler 5:14

It was a good year. I, you obviously you can't make that kind of move in, in a month. you really want to plan it out well. So, it was about a process. even just building out the space the way I wanted it, That took several months all the ducks lined up. I got them all in a row. had good people behind me and, and we made it happen.

Tom Jackobs 5:32

Yeah. That must

Risk And Planning Advice

Tom Jackobs 5:33

have been somewhat scary also at the at the same time, like leaving something that's comfortable that you've helped build and like you said was successful, to going into something that was a little bit more unknown. So how'd you navigate that piece of the puzzle that a lot of people don't?

Connor Ziegler 5:49

Yeah. I probably should have been, more nervous and had more anxiety about it than I did. I tend to be a bit of an entrepreneur at heart, just with other things that my wife and I do. so the business side of it didn't frighten me. I knew that I had a good patient following, and I feel that if you can eclipse the market in what you offer, you can be successful. And I knew my practice model was just... There was nothing like it in the market. so you have to have some level of confidence. You have to have some level of risk tolerance. I had those, I'm seeing it to fruition.

Tom Jackobs 6:23

That's good. And then for a lot of people they're like, but I would have that anxiety through the roof.

Connor Ziegler 6:28

Right.

Tom Jackobs 6:28

what types of advice would you give to somebody that's doesn't have the risk, tolerance that you have in terms of going from something that's comfortable but they know is just not part of their, not feeding their soul, to doing something that's feeding their soul but not quite if it's going to be able to feed their family? You know what I mean?

Connor Ziegler 6:47

Understood. yeah, it just takes, it takes a lot of planning. I think that you can't rush into the decision, and a 12-month timeline may be too short for some. maybe it's a 24-month timeline. but I think you have to do a good market analysis. I think that you have to build a patient base in whatever practice you're in. I don't think that You could come to a community and just start this, having just moved there. I think, having some notoriety, some patient following, already is helpful. but I think the motivating factor is really providing a higher level of care. but you definitely have to get your ducks in a row, and do a good market analysis, understand the numbers, and to know if it's feasible. And, and frankly, join communities. get the right people in your corner. it's one of the reasons I reached out to you, Tom, I knew that I lacked in marketing, know-how and, and needed to find the right people and the right coaching. there's great opportunity, and a lot of great, community, everyone's disposal. I think you just have to get dialed into it and find the right people.

Tom Jackobs 7:52

Yeah. And that's really great advice as well. 'Cause, you know, you see on the in- internet or Instagram specifically, like all the, all the, the bros that are saying, "Oh, just quit your job. Just go all in." And I really think that's, very irresponsible because it... Not everybody has that type of risk tolerance, and who knows if their idea isn't going to be good. So doing the research and finding out and doing all that homework first is so valuable anybody making a big shift

Connor Ziegler 8:21

it's imperative. Absolutely

Tom Jackobs 8:23

So you had mentioned

Eclipsing Industrial Orthopedics

Tom Jackobs 8:24

a little bit ago, it piqued my interest here. You said eclipse what everybody else is doing. So tell me, how are you eclipsing with your current practice what everybody else is doing in orthopedics?

Connor Ziegler 8:36

Yeah absolutely. So I can confidently, explain and describe it because I left the exact model that is, pervasive. and I call it industrialized orthopedics. you go into most busy private practices like where I was at, where we saw collectively six to 700 patients a day in one building. and you look out in the waiting room and there'd be 50 to 100 people. And it always felt like we were just herding cattle. and don't get me wrong, we were helping people, but it's just the feeling that people get of being rushed through something or waiting forty-five minutes in a waiting room of, like I said, 50 to 100 people, the frustration involved, and then just getting a few minutes with a doctor or maybe not a doctor at all, or maybe they got switched at the last minute. So eclipsing that is actually fairly easy, in the sense of just giving people time, giving people access. They only see me. They're never going to see a PA. I have an office setting that is very unique. It feels more like a Ralph Lauren cigar lounge than an orthopedic office. and that's all part of the model. I want people to feel, like this is exceptional or extraordinary. my goodness, they can come in and have a cappuccino and sit on a leather chair, and then come in, and see me for their consultation. And I give them an hour of my time. plus I have all the modern treatment techniques and therapies and modalities, that are included in their visit. It's a much higher level of care where the patient feels heard, and I really want to meet them where they are, in their station in life. And that's unique in, in... from industrialized orthopedics.

Tom Jackobs 10:07

So what have been some of the pleasant

Concierge Care Wins

Tom Jackobs 10:09

surprises that have happened since you started, this practice and have exited the kind of traditional model?

Connor Ziegler 10:17

honestly, how well received it, it is. I thought there would be... I knew there would be a buildup period. but as soon as people see the concept, and come in the door and just experience what I have to offer or what a concierge-level practice has to offer, they know that the care they're getting is just way beyond what they're going to get in the normal model, the normal system. So the reception of that has been very positive. people leave appointments saying that was the best visit they've ever had with a doctor. and frankly, that's what I want to hear. I want them to feel that. I want to over-deliver on value. and when you do that, the price tag doesn't matter that much. people just want to feel like they get value out of their visit, and they're going for the outcome. that's what I try to deliver, and, and the reception of that has been even better than I anticipated

Tom Jackobs 11:03

Yeah. Yeah. I like that you brought that up. it's about the outcome,

Selling Outcomes Not Procedures

Tom Jackobs 11:08

right? Because a lot of, entrepreneurs and salespeople, especially in the health and wellness industry, focus too much on the technique or the process or the protocols and all that. And when it comes to selling that to people, it doesn't really work because it's selling something that people don't really care about. What they care about is the outcome. They want their shoulder to not hurt. They want their knee to work properly. So how do you have those conversations with people that are more stuck on they might have been in the traditional model, and they're expecting insurance to pay for a lot of what they... what, what you offer, and clearly a lot of the regen, things that you're doing, insurance doesn't participate in anyway. But how do you have that conversation with people to differentiate, you know, self-care versus, having sick care?

Connor Ziegler 11:58

it's just listening. you have to dig into what their issue is and allow them to speak. when there's a surgical issue, I will tell you that within 30 seconds in a room, having glanced at an MRI and knowing what the injury is, I know what surgery needs to be done. But that's not listening to the patient. Maybe, they're not in a place in life right now where they can do that. Maybe they have a sick spouse. Maybe their work schedule is too arduous. Maybe they've got four little kids like I do. that, that's listening to the patient and finding a solution for them, and understanding their goals. So once you do that and you can focus on what their problem is, the root cause of it, and develop a solution that's based on for them or based on them, that really hits home. and it's just not what they experience in the fast-paced offices, which I did for years. you give a better level of care.

Tom Jackobs 12:49

Yeah. and think people... I don't think, I know people find value in that personal care, especially when it comes to, their health. So when

Self Pay Business Challenges

Tom Jackobs 13:00

you're thinking about the business side of your practice, what are the kind of the main challenges that you're facing, in terms of the you've made that transition, but now you have some challenges in terms of building a business, which every business owner always has some challenges. But what are those unique challenges that you might be facing that other practitioners, might be struggling with as well?

Connor Ziegler 13:22

Yeah. it's definitely a different concept. going from, purely insurance-based to, almost completely a self-pay model, that's a big leap. so again, it's it's delivering and frankly not being afraid to, to charge for it. Um, I mean, every... You know, as a, as a provider, I deserve to make a good living. but in so doing, I also want to deliver exceptional care to, to warrant that. and so I think just devising, your programs and what you offer and, and making sure that you're doing things that are evidence-based and providing the outcome that people seek. If you're over-delivering on that, the price doesn't matter, as much as you may think. people can see that if you meet them where they are and focus on giving them the outcome that they want.

Tom Jackobs 14:11

Yeah. Yeah, I always, uh, coach, uh, clients that, um, when, when people have money issues or they can't afford, some of the... Or they say that they can't afford, it really comes down to priority. Is how do you prioritize where you're spending your money? And I think if, and this is just my observation of the kind of the cash pay, private pay, models out there versus the insurance model, are probably spending the same amount of money that they would doing cash pay that they do in the insurance model. It's just $5 here, $20 copay there, half a day off from work where you're not earning anything. if people actually added all that up and to get referrals to this specialist and that specialist and this MRI and going all around and trying to get all their care taken care of, they're probably a lot more in time and effort and cash than it would be to see a concierge, a medical provider that can see them, within a couple days, spends an hour with them, and gets them the outcome that they want.

Connor Ziegler 15:17

100%. I couldn't agree more. and in fact, that's something I highlight a lot. I tell people, when they're just even just deciding if they want to have a visit, I'm "Listen, I will give you more in one visit than you'll get in four or five visits anywhere else." And that's exactly right. how many half days off from work can people take? I've had clients or patients come in that they've seen a PA three times before they saw a doctor, and that was four visits, and they still didn't have an answer. the time is a huge component, and the, and, the time that they're suffering with their issue. so you have to factor that in. and people want service, and they want it now, and I understand that. And so you have to be able to deliver that. And if you can deliver that, you've already beat 90% out there

Tom Jackobs 15:59

Yeah. Yeah, that's yeah, the, unfortunately the low is, the, the bar is a little low in, in the kind of the traditional model, unfortunately. And, and, you know, I don't want to blame any of the doctors for that. it's definitely the system that, that you guys have to work within. What would you say

Advice For Doctors Making The Leap

Tom Jackobs 16:15

to other medical doctors out there that are in kind of in the traditional sick care model and are contemplating making a move? Like, what, what type of advice would you give to them?

Connor Ziegler 16:28

I would encourage it. I think you just have to, do the planning, do your due diligence, make sure it works, in, in your area. But honestly, it can work in any area. some of the most successful, doctors in my subspecialty, are not in, what you would say, necessarily the best markets. but they deliver something that's so exceptional and so different from everyone else that they end up doing very well and, and doing very well for their patients, equally. So I think that you just have to plan it out. Um, you have to get the right coaching, and you have to read, you have to pray about it. You have to do all the things that we would with any big decision. but don't be afraid to make the leap because I think you're going to feel more fulfilled, by practicing medicine at a higher level. we all went into the into being doctors or providers or, medical providers in general for different reasons. but most of that's focused around patient care and delivering, or helping other people. and you can do that at a... I think even more so in this model, than you can in, in more more standard insurance-driven care. I know that for a fact, and I'm an example of that. so I would encourage people to do it. I think just like any big decision, in summary, you have to just plan and plan and, and get the right people behind you. get the right, knowledge base. don't try to just do it alone. you have to seek out a mentorship.

Tom Jackobs 17:49

that's such good advice. when I first started my fitness business 15 years ago, I didn't have that, and I almost went broke in six months because I didn't have all that support. And so it's needed for entrepreneurs, 'cause again, we're told just grind through it. Just you can do it. You can do, just do it yourself. And our families don't really understand if they're not entrepreneurs themselves, and our friends may not understand what's going on. So it's nice to be around other entrepreneurs or be in a mentorship program that provides that support.

Connor Ziegler 18:21

Absolutely.

Tom Jackobs 18:21

We're talking about that, foreseeing into the future,

Future Of Hybrid Healthcare

Tom Jackobs 18:24

if all the medical doctors decide to go to cash pay, or change the model, is the model, do you think, is the model going to change at some point to patients that better outcome but still have some type of insurance things like that? I'd love to get your insight.

Connor Ziegler 18:40

Yeah, I think that there's a hybrid, component to things, and I think that a lot of... I think going completely self-pay in an office setting is very doable. but an example, just to use myself as an example, I still take, some commercial insurances for surgery. I have a self-pay option for surgery. In fact, you can go right on my website and see how much it costs to have a rotator cuff repair. it's very transparent.

Tom Jackobs 19:01

Mm-hmm.

Connor Ziegler 19:01

but, I think that there's definitely a hybrid that can exist. I do think that over time this will become more and more common, especially over the next ten years. That's why if anyone's on the fence about it, I would encourage you to capture your market now, because other people will probably follow you. it would be easier to do, to capture a market than, compete with three or four other people in your market, if you wait too long. so there's that. part of it, too. You always want to be ahead of the game. Yeah there, there's still room, and you can ease yourself into it. I think that as long as you devise a good market or a good business plan, and over-deliver on care, and provide something that eclipses what everyone else does, you can make it work pretty well.

Tom Jackobs 19:46

Nice. good. And so yeah, I was, how is this going to shake out as we, as the pendulum swings, both ways, It's, always interesting to see where things will land.

Connor Ziegler 19:56

especially in orthopedics, for instance, it's not getting any better in that industrialized model. reimbursements go down. just costs and fixed overhead continue to go up. it's a difficult, it's difficult to run a practice. I always-- I often would seemingly joke with my partners that doing surgery is not that hard. Once you're good at it's very routine. running a company is hard. and the insurance industry doesn't make that easier. It's not going to get better over the next ten years. we all know that. historically, that, that adds up. so that's another motivation factor, if you will, on, on exiting that model.

Tom Jackobs 20:34

Yeah. hopefully, more and more, people and doctors take up that and make that shift to make, the care much better and leave the sick care to the sick care, right? and health to health professionals.

Connor Ziegler 20:48

Absolutely.

Tom Jackobs 20:48

I think there can be a really good hybrid model to that, and there's lots of countries around the world that have kind of models like that, that work. like I, I live in Taiwan and, the healthcare is very inexpensive. but there's... They only provide certain things, and you have to pay out of pocket for those other things. But that out-of-pocket is still not, $2,000 for an MRI. It's like maybe $100 for an MRI versus, in the US it would be like 1,000 or $500. It's interesting that it can work. so we just need to make it

Connor Ziegler 21:21

Absolutely. Be the pioneer.

Tom Jackobs 21:24

So tell us a little bit about, how people can get ahold of you, and what your specialty

How To Find Connor

Tom Jackobs 21:28

is if people have, some issues that they would like to talk to you about.

Connor Ziegler 21:31

Great. Yeah, thank you. so I'm primarily a knee and shoulder specialist. I also do elbow, but I-- anything orthopedic, I have a good knowledge base on. I can read an MRI on any orthopedic issue, but knee and shoulder is really my, my, my niche. I have, my practice is called Vitality Orthopedics and Biologics. I'm in Simsbury, Connecticut. beautiful area of the country, a postcard, Connecticut, town. and my website is vitalityorthopedics.com. that is primarily focused on my regenerative medicine practice. Um, connorzieglermd.com is also, a website of mine that is focused more on my surgical practice. so I'm still a surgeon,.

Tom Jackobs 22:08

Okay.

Connor Ziegler 22:09

But I really try to, meet that fifty percent in the middle. I call it the abyss, where they're, they're not bad enough for a knee replacement, for instance, and really an underserved, market, where they want pain relief, but the industrialized model doesn't work for them. so that's really what I focus on. I focus on helping those, active adults, get rid of knee and shoulder pain.

Tom Jackobs 22:28

Yeah. And looking at your background there, so you work with, professional athletes as well?

Connor Ziegler 22:34

Yeah. I've, I've-- over the years I've collected, boxes of jerseys, of people I've operated on, local colleges, professional, mainly professional hockey. and yeah, so they're memorabilia. I could pan through my office and show you, different jerseys, and everyone has a story. but yeah, these are all patients of mine.

Tom Jackobs 22:51

That's nice. awesome. Well, and that's a testament that, obviously you do great work and 'cause if, athletes trust, trust you, you have to be doing good work, for for the athletes. Yeah.

Connor Ziegler 23:02

So absolutely.

Tom Jackobs 23:03

Well, Connor, it's been a pleasure having you on the show, and thank you so

Closing Thanks And Wrap Up

Tom Jackobs 23:07

much for sharing your wisdom and being so transparent with kind of your journey through traditional medicine into kind of the new wave of helping, patients. So I really appreciate your time and your knowledge as well.

Connor Ziegler 23:18

Oh, well thank you so much, Tom, and thank you for doing what you do.

Tom Jackobs 23:21

Awesome. And thank you listeners for tuning in today as well, and watching if you're on YouTube. I do appreciate it. So make sure you're checking out everything that Connor's doing. We're going to put all those links down into the show notes, so it makes it really easy to click in there and find what you want to, click on. And while you're down there too, if you could give the show a rating and review, I would really appreciate that as well. It just helps get the word out about The Heart-Led Business Show, and helps more businesses get that heart that they need. So until next time, lead with your heart.

Speaker 2 23:53

You've been listening to The Heart-Led Business Show, hosted by Tom Jackobs. Join us next time for another inspiring journey into the heart of business.