Speaker 0:01

Welcome to The Heart-Led Business Show, where compassion meets commerce and leaders lead with love. Join your host, Tom Jackobs, as he delves into the insightful conversations with visionary business leaders who defy the status quo, putting humanity first and profit second. From heartfelt strategies to inspiring stories, this podcast is your compass in the world of conscious capitalism. So buckle up and let your heart guide your business journey.

Meet Melanie Benson

Tom Jackobs 0:36

Welcome back to the Heart-Led Business Show. Today, we're rolling out the red carpet for the remarkable Melanie Benson. As the authority amplifier for expertpreneurs, that's hard to say, but expertpreneurs. She magnifies unseen brilliance into thriving businesses. With her years of experience, a top 1% podcast, and a mission to cultivate collaboration, Melanie is here to share her heart-led journey of entrepreneurship. So buckle up, because success is about to get a fabulous makeover. Melanie, welcome to the show.

Melanie Benson 1:11

Thank you. I'm so thrilled to be here with you. This is a conversation that, ooh, just even in the green room, I was like, Oh, this is so exciting to get into this conversation."

Tom Jackobs 1:23

I'm excited as well and quite frankly, a little nervous, because you're a very experienced podcaster. And so I, I have a little bit nervous, but the heart is here, and we're gonna share that heart with the rest of the audience. And I really want to dig into your story as well, because I, I know it's gonna be really enlightening for the listeners to know that you can, have a heart-led business and make money at the same time.

Melanie Benson 1:47

Yeah, make an impact and make money.

Tom Jackobs 1:50

It's best of both worlds.

Defining Heart-Led Business

Tom Jackobs 1:52

So but before we go, get into that, I always like to ask the first question, which is, what's your definition of a heart-led business?

Melanie Benson 1:58

I really had to think about this one when I knew you were gonna ask it, because what I really believe is heart-led is alignment And I, I feel that so many people build a business because they're told, "This is what's gonna make you money." Or they're like, "I have all these things I could do. I need to do the thing that's gonna make me money." And I started my business in the very beginning because I wanted to make an impact, but I didn't know how to make money. And so I did the business that everybody told me would make money, and I was miserable, Tom.

Tom Jackobs 2:32

Yeah.

Melanie Benson 2:33

So, and we can get into that more, I know, but what I think heart-led is doing something that's plugging you into your superpowers, plugging you into your great why. Like, why are you here? Why do you want to do this work? What's the juice that gets you up every day? And then having a business that allows you to amplify that impact, that reach, that message that lights you up. Now, we all know having a business every day is not sunshine and roses, but-

Tom Jackobs 3:02

Right

Melanie Benson 3:02

when we are in that energy, right, that's what gets you over the humps. That's what gets you to have the perseverance and the resilience that we need when we're having industry shakeups and things aren't going so well. So I think that's what heart-led is, and I think people feel that. Like, people-

Tom Jackobs 3:21

Yeah.

AI and Human Connection

Melanie Benson 3:22

I have a prediction, Tom, and we can unpack-

Tom Jackobs 3:24

Okay

Melanie Benson 3:24

this if you want. The proliferation of AI-generated coaching and content and bots and agents and all the stuff that's happening right now, I have a prediction that this is all gonna surge for a while, and then-

Tom Jackobs 3:41

Mm-hmm

Melanie Benson 3:41

we're gonna see that pendulum swing back to heart. Yeah. Because AI cannot connect my heart to your heart. It cannot connect your heart to our audience's heart. It cannot connect us to that client in the same way. And I have a feeling we're gonna see that pendulum swing back to, "I'm missing that connection," 'cause that's-

Tom Jackobs 4:03

Yeah.

Melanie Benson 4:03

My first company was called Success Connections, and that's because I truly believe in the power of connection, and I think that happens from our heart.

Tom Jackobs 4:10

Yeah, and, and And I think you're absolutely right with that prediction. And it's the same for any, technology or any new things that are coming out. There's always that huge surge, and everybody's super excited about it. And then we realize, oh, wait, we're missing some... It's taking away from something else. And you're, you're absolutely right. There is no way that AI can connect our, our hearts. Now I think there can be a nice balance between the two, where we can speed up those interactions, get... And for, and I think for people that are how to say this nicely, emotionally intelligence challenged maybe, and,

Melanie Benson 4:49

So politically correct.

Tom Jackobs 4:49

Maybe not... I don't know. They don't have... I, I,

Melanie Benson 4:53

Run with it. It sounds good.

Tom Jackobs 4:55

Yeah. So, I actually don't feel like I have super high emotional intelligence. It's been a skill that I've had to cultivate. But that's-- I think it's gonna help people realize that they need to start to cultivate that piece of their intelligence as well, that emotional intelligence.

Melanie Benson 5:12

Can I share an example on how I see that unfolding before we move on? Would that be okay?

Tom Jackobs 5:16

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think part of the growth of the coaching industry was this like how do we scale and how do we grow our reach exponentially, which is of course what we want. We wanna impact more lives. But in that process, so many people were taught and maybe given instruction or training that you need to outsource a lot of that connectivity. So we saw a proliferation of high-profile experts showing up on social media and creating noise and content and information, but there was no connectivity. And I think that's one of the things that I'm noticing a great a culling of the noise and a deepening of how do we connect. I don't know if you're on Substack, but Substack's one of those places where people are like, "No noise. Let's be real. Let's go deep. Let's really connect." And I think that's one of the things about a heart-led business is we're looking for our hearts are leading us to. How do we find deeper connections, community, masterminds, coaching with a human, you know, community Yeah, yeah. online where we can have that. So anyway, that just felt like an example Yeah. of what you were just saying. Yeah, absolutely. And live events, getting people back into, talking to real people and not online. Yeah. So y- Yeah. And I, I've s- I've seen that shift as well. Like obviously COVID kept everybody indoors and for way too long. And n- now everybody was just like, "Oh, we gotta meet everybody." And that now it's... I, I'm f- I don't know if you're finding this, but I, I'm finding that equilibrium is coming back where it's, there's online stuff, but there's also, in person as well, so you can get that connection. I think there's a... We're gonna see a lot more people looking for in real life opportunities to meet the, the mentors, the, the community, their peers. Yeah. IRL man. IRL. Which I didn't know what that meant for the longest time.

Melanie’s Mission and Origin

Tom Jackobs 7:14

Anyway, let's talk about your business and, and what makes it heart-led. And, definitely w- get into the transition as well into your business and any issues that may have come up, identifying as a heart-led business.

Melanie Benson 7:29

Oh, okay. That's a, a deep conversation. I mean, I think what makes my heart, my, my business heart led is, I work with experts, coaches, service professionals who they wanna stand out in a very crowded market. Part of it is they're stepping into more thought leadership. They're st- they're really owning the edge of the, the conversation they're meant to have. And part of it is there are just some tactical, strategic level things that they need to know. And for many people, this can get very, logic driven, right? It's "Oh, all the things I have to do to stand out." It feels like I'm having to contort myself or create a version of myself that's accepted in an online environment. I believe that when we drop into the most authentic, most aligned, I mean, I've had several reiterations of my business over the years. I started my business in 2000, and nobody even knew really what coaching was when I started. It was this new idea that was starting to just have awareness. We didn't have online businesses. We didn't even have social media. We didn't have podcasts. We didn't have any of it. We, we had- teleseminars,

Tom Jackobs 8:38

Oh my gosh.

Melanie Benson 8:39

And

Tom Jackobs 8:39

Or, On WebEx, right? Or

Melanie Benson 8:42

yes. You know, there was a few of them, right?

Tom Jackobs 8:45

Yeah.

Melanie Benson 8:46

We didn't have this way of, of bringing video and our, our visual representation of our message in, in an online format. We had to go to an in-person event for that. So anyway, I feel as a heart-led business owner, my job is to unlock that energetic frequency inside of somebody with the words, with the, the way that they can allow themselves to amplify their work in the world and be seen. Now, for some people- That means they have to face their beliefs, their fears, that quiet filtering that they do where they're like, "Ooh, can I say that? It's not, is that too much? Can I do that? Can I sell like that? Can I really market my business like that?" It's like, "I am here to do this, and I'm committed to this, and I'm going to amplify the reach of this in a way that I'm not gonna g- I'm not gonna let, I'm not gonna hold myself back anymore."

Reframing Sales as Service

Tom Jackobs 9:43

Now you set an example that you share from your own life and your own business that is what got you to that realization?

Melanie Benson 9:53

So, you and I were talking in the green room about what we lock into around heart-led business. And when I started in 2000, I was coming out of a corporate job, Tom.

Tom Jackobs 10:02

Oh.

Melanie Benson 10:03

In that corporate world, I was surrounded by salespeople who I interpreted as being icky in how they approached landing sales. Now, we were dealing with multi-million dollar projects. This was not $1,000 here or there. Not even $10,000. We're talking about multi-millions of dollars. And these would oftentimes be very long cycle sales processes. And I had a belief that was at the core contorting what sales and marketing was about.

Tom Jackobs 10:40

Yeah.

Melanie Benson 10:40

As a new coach, guess what that translated to. Zero sales. Zero strategy to acquire a client. I could be a great coach. I had great training from corporate, I had great training in my coach training, but I had zero clients. And I had to recognize that the only reason I didn't have a client wasn't because there w- I didn't know how, it was because I wasn't willing. I think that's what gets a

Tom Jackobs 11:09

Interesting.

Melanie Benson 11:11

kinda twisted up for a lot of people is we project we've had an experience of sales or marketing that felt icky, that, "Oh my gosh, I don't wanna be perceived that way. That's not who I am." And that was my biggest transformation. And about 10 years ago, I was having a sales conversation with somebody, and we were talking about my mastermind at the time, and she said, "I'm in." And she said, "And by the way, this is the least salesy conversation I've ever had where I have invested this much money." And I w- I was like, Oh my gosh, I have gone from being the, the woman who resisted any kind of selling to being complimented on selling, and then teaching people how to hold those kind of sales conversations." Because really, I know you've le- lent- landed in this too, is that we're not selling. This was my big shift is I'm not selling. I am helping somebody decide if they're going to step into the greatest outcome for their life,

Tom Jackobs 12:17

Yeah.

Melanie Benson 12:17

and if

Tom Jackobs 12:18

Yeah.

Melanie Benson 12:18

one that's going to be their guide in that process, or if this program is going to be part of that transformation.

Tom Jackobs 12:25

Ah.

Melanie Benson 12:26

That was definitely something I had

Misalignment and Business Pivots

Melanie Benson 12:27

to face. I mean, 26 years in, I, I've had a lot of opportunities to look at am I really being heart-led? I'm not immune to being willing to try things. And I, there was a moment when I realized I had built a business that was everybody wanted from me but wasn't aligned with me. And those are tough moments.

Tom Jackobs 12:51

Yeah. And You can feel it, right? Yeah.

Melanie Benson 12:54

Oh,

Tom Jackobs 12:54

And so what did you feel at those times? Was it like the stress or what, what was the feeling that went through your mind and your body?

Melanie Benson 13:03

I have some tools in my toolbox that are under the guidance of human design. So I don't know if you're familiar with human design, but,

Tom Jackobs 13:11

Yep.

Melanie Benson 13:11

For me, when something's out of alignment, it starts not subtly, these huge epic fail points. Things that should work literally stop working-

Tom Jackobs 13:25

Hmm.

Melanie Benson 13:26

it's like, why is this not working anymore? I have spent thousands of dollars building this out. I know it's working for other people. Why is it not working for me? And so it starts with little things stop working and create a energetic discord in my brain, in my mental focus. And then when I don't get it, they turn into big epic failures that are catastrophic, that literally

Tom Jackobs 13:53

Yeah.

Melanie Benson 13:54

just derail you, I've had a few of those. Some of them were, a combination of a personal circumstance that intertwined with the business situation

Tom Jackobs 14:03

Of course.

Melanie Benson 14:06

Yeah, in 2009, 2010, we had a major financial crisis,

Tom Jackobs 14:10

Yep.

Melanie Benson 14:11

I literally went from, almost hitting a million dollars in revenue to losing about half of that because we couldn't reclaim a lot of our financed packages having to face, like, why is this happening? And I, when I really looked at it, I was like, I built a business that everybody said I should build." And it was good. It was a part of me. It was a strength that I had from corporate, but it wasn't the fullest expression of my superpower. It wasn't aligned deeply, and I would catch myself with these little thoughts of "I'm bored with this.

Tom Jackobs 14:43

Oh.

Melanie Benson 14:44

Am

Tom Jackobs 14:44

Oh, yeah.

Melanie Benson 14:46

really gonna talk about this again?" There were little pockets of resistance "I don't know, do I wanna say yes to that? Do I wanna roll out the next wave for this next cohort?" And it's an interesting... And I know a, a lot of my colleagues right now are, are looking at this as we're going through another evolution in our industry. Things that used to work s- are stopping to work,

Tom Jackobs 15:08

Yep.

Melanie Benson 15:08

and they are looking at their own evolution and their own transformation, and these little nuggets of wisdom are popping, but it looks like I wanna talk about this, but it doesn't fit in the box I built. So where do I put it? And so it was interesting journey to discover the work I'm doing today. It took me a couple years of bumping up against, "Let me just get back to what worked before."

Tom Jackobs 15:37

Yeah. Did-- Was it like friction? That that, that, that... I, I like that term. Like it, it's...

Melanie Benson 15:44

Despair

Tom Jackobs 15:45

Despair. Okay.

Melanie Benson 15:46

Actually. If I could use a word that really... because I also, I was the breadwinner. I was not in a relationship, so I, it was up to me. I had a huge team. And the

Tom Jackobs 15:58

Yeah.

Melanie Benson 15:58

despair of this is not working and I have all these people relying on me was heavy, and I know other people can relate to this. As a matter of fact-

Tom Jackobs 16:05

Yeah

Melanie Benson 16:05

if you're listening to this, if you can relate to this, wherever you're listening to it, I'd love a little drop in, tell us, you know, give us a little comment or a little shout-out on social or wherever, and let us know, like, yes, this is up for me too. Because I think this is a very relatable passage that many of us go through. I'm carrying the load.

Tom Jackobs 16:24

Yep.

Melanie Benson 16:24

And it's not working, and I don't know what to do next.

Tom Jackobs 16:27

Yeah.

Aligned Community and Pausing

Tom Jackobs 16:28

And I think it's interesting for entrepreneurs in general because we're lone wolves. We're told just grind it out, you can do it.

Melanie Benson 16:36

Yeah.

Tom Jackobs 16:36

But, but we're on an island by ourselves, and I think that's why, a lot of the masterminds that we all join are so important because we get that, like, all these people understand me because they're going through the same thing that we're going through. And so it's, it's nice to have that community for sure.

Melanie Benson 16:53

I do think it's nice to have community, and y- it needs to be aligned community. I

Tom Jackobs 16:57

Yes.

Melanie Benson 16:58

say that word lot because

Tom Jackobs 16:59

Yeah, I love that word too. yeah,

Melanie Benson 17:01

They shoot for the concept or to grab the thing that's going to help, but then they choose something from the wrong factors, the wrong decision-making factors, and they're disappointed. I see happening

Tom Jackobs 17:12

Yeah.

Melanie Benson 17:13

with hiring coaches, joining masterminds, getting into community, choosing the events they go to, and there's parts of it that are right, but the totality isn't going to move the needle for them the way they need it to. And then they're, then they kinda throw shade at the person and it's

Tom Jackobs 17:30

Right.

Melanie Benson 17:31

where was the discerning factors in the decision? Not to say that everybody makes a bad decision. Sometimes there's just a bad, bad actor in the mix. But

Tom Jackobs 17:39

Sure.

Melanie Benson 17:39

I think we have to really know what's important to us that's going to be aligned.

Tom Jackobs 17:44

Yeah. And I love that word as well because it just, it shows that everything is going in the right direction. You're just-- you're going forward versus just being stagnant and just sitting there in the mud.

Melanie Benson 17:57

Yeah. And I would maybe throw a unique point of view in the mix around that, is sometimes I think we have to pause before we can get into movement. A heart-based business owner, you probably have experienced this, where the heart's not clear.

Tom Jackobs 18:12

Right. And this is something I learned a lot about in that quagmire. It's like the perfect storm of 2009, 2010. I was like if I don't know and I take action, what's gonna happen?" So I might move, I might give myself the, the soothing of I'm moving towards something, and maybe that's helpful because I'm moving in a direction that might give me information. But sometimes we literally just need to pause and get reconnected to what is important. What do I want? And I think, again, I, I'm bringing us back into today. There's a lot of people who are in pause. So one of the discerning factors right now is, are you on perpetual pause or are you in a supporting pause that is allowing you to gather information to reconnect to yourself, to disconnect and decondition from all the noise around you, and to really get reconnected to your heart and what you're here to do, and who Yeah, I love that.

Melanie Benson 19:10

you need to be to pull that off?

Tom Jackobs 19:12

Yeah. I think a lot of people are, are using meditation as well for that slow down, for that pause, that, that mindfulness as well. And that gives you a little mini pause. But I like the, the one-month pause, the two-month... like that would be like ideal. And I've, I've done two or three-week pauses before, and that's... You come back so energized. You're ready to just take on the world, and then you need another pause as, as everything wanes and waxes in our life.

Melanie Benson 19:44

Yeah, like an intentional sabbatical. I think part of this has to do with how we're wired and how our energy interacts with other people's energies, how we interact with our own. You may not be a pauser. I know people who, if they pause, it's like torture,

Tom Jackobs 20:01

Oh. Yeah,

Melanie Benson 20:02

So you have to know what... how you're wired around that.

Tom Jackobs 20:07

Yeah. For me anyway, for the first couple days, it's definitely torture, but then it, you get into your rhythm with it as well.

Melanie Benson 20:13

I don't think my husband could pause very long. He's a generator. He's always generating

Tom Jackobs 20:18

Okay.

Melanie Benson 20:19

motion.

Tom Jackobs 20:20

All right.

Prosperity with Integrity

Tom Jackobs 20:21

Nice. Melanie, I'd love to dive into kind of the finance piece of having a heart-led business, because that's where a lot of people really struggle is, can you make money with a heart-led business, and should you make money with a heart-led business? So how did you kind of balance that as you were building up your heart-led business?

Melanie Benson 20:40

I was very fortunate early on to align in a mastermind with high earners and people who understood the value of the work that we do. So I, I was exposed to this very early. Now, where things were a little rough for me is when I took my coach training, we were taught to make $350 a month for three coaching sessions. Remember this was, 27 years ago, so things were a little different back then.

Tom Jackobs 21:12

Yeah.

Melanie Benson 21:13

And we were also indoctrinated in or trained in a way of coaching that it wasn't necessarily about a six-figure business, it was about being of service to people.

Tom Jackobs 21:25

Hmm.

Melanie Benson 21:26

I one day was looking at my bank account and I was looking at my business model and I was like, "I live in LA. This is not a sustainable price point." This is not going to work. And I, I felt the, the energetic friction between there's a part of me that wants to know I can create any level of prosperity I desire. And so I had to look at what are my beliefs and my practices that are supporting this condition of prosperity struggle right now?

Tom Jackobs 22:05

Oh, yeah. Hmm.

Melanie Benson 22:06

What do I believe and what do I do that keeps me locked into this? Because we all have patterns and belief systems and ideas and a paradigm about money and selling and prosperity. And as a heart-based business, I decided that if I was able to be highly prosperous, what is the heart-aligned benefits of that? First of all, I'm going to be the best version of me. I'm going to have the freedom to teach, to impact lives, to grow the reach of my work in the world. If I struggle, that's not going to

Tom Jackobs 22:46

exist.

Melanie Benson 22:47

I'm also going to be able to expand this heart-based leadership, this heart-based work to other people that I'm going to hire and give a job to. So making good money allows me to lift other people up in the process. And third, that there is a spiritual principle that when we invest well into a practice that we actually... It, it calls us up, the person who's investing up to show up in a more powerful and embody something that maybe they've been holding back on, so it empowers them to be more prosperous. Now that's of course if you're actually delivering at the level at which you're asking for the investment of. So I really believed that, that there is a spiritual practice of being prosperous, and I wanted to embody that. Now, am I immune to, money ebbing and flowing? No. I think what matters is what are the tools in your toolbox. It allows me to have that expansion in the sales process. It's like, I'm excited to market, to do my podcast guesting, to get on stages, to deliver my trainings or my events, right? And it just, it's the energy that allows me to kinda light up and be a beacon, if you will, a lighthouse for people that need and want what I do.

Tom Jackobs 24:12

I love that those principles are just absolutely brilliant. And for any listener out there that is struggling with getting in alignment and making sure that everything is working in their business or having that friction, having some principles that guide your business, and Melanie's principles are just brilliant in terms of delivering a great service to people. But we need those principles or core values. Something that holds us as a business owner and the business accountable to the results that we get. Thank you so much for sharing that. That's brilliant.

Melanie Benson 24:43

If anybody wants to borrow mine, you can borrow mine.

Tom Jackobs 24:46

Yeah.

Melanie Benson 24:46

Yeah.

Tom Jackobs 24:46

Those are really great because that's just gonna elevate everybody's business. 'Cause if, if you're giving the people what they want, and you're excited about it, and you love it, then the business is just gonna grow because that energy is so much more amplified than if it's a struggle and you're like, "Oh, I have to do this training again. Ugh." Yeah.

Melanie Benson 25:07

I'm so glad you said that, Tom, because I think that's where so many people are in a stuck energy, it's like

Tom Jackobs 25:14

Yep.

Melanie Benson 25:14

They're in this constant battle of wills with what they know they probably should be doing and what they feel inspired to do.

Tom Jackobs 25:22

Yeah.

Melanie Benson 25:23

We could host a conversation

Tom Jackobs 25:23

Yeah.

Melanie Benson 25:24

about that.

Tom Jackobs 25:25

The shoulds. It's the shoulds and the woulds. Not a good place to be. So, I can't believe the time has gone so, so quickly. This has been a great conversation.

Free Framework and Final Thoughts

Tom Jackobs 25:34

But how can people learn more about your trainings and the work that you do, Melanie?

Melanie Benson 25:39

Melaniebenson.com always a place to find everything. I'm active on pretty much every social media platform except for X. I would also say, we talked about how I went from being, in corporate and figuring this all out, and I, I created a modality. There's a seven-step framework that I've used over and over and over again. I used it to rev up my business when I went through that pivot and transformed. And whenever I'm looking to bring a new, fresher brand or energy, I go back to the same framework. I've used it with thousands of clients, and it's the framework of how to go from being invisible or a best-kept secret to really owning your work and getting other people to recognize that you're the expert they wanna work with. And it, it's very powerful. It's very simple. It's just here's the stages you go through, I've made it free for people. So if you go to melaniebenson.com/heartled, you can access it for free. There's a little guidance that I'll give you on how to unpack some of the different steps, and I think it's a great place to start when you're really ready to bring your work out in a bigger way and stay in that alignment and stay in that integrousness of who you are and what you wanna do.

Tom Jackobs 26:56

Yeah. Oh, what a great, great tool to have. And it doesn't take too long to go through that either, I would imagine.

Melanie Benson 27:01

It isn't.

Tom Jackobs 27:02

Yeah.

Melanie Benson 27:02

Five minutes, ten minutes.

Tom Jackobs 27:03

Yeah. But the, the exercise alone, just getting that out of your brain and onto paper, just that kinesthetic kind of writing it down and, and getting clear, I think will really help people. Yeah. Thank you so much for making that available to the audience. That's, that's really very generous. Thank you.

Melanie Benson 27:20

Absolutely. Thank you for letting me share

Tom Jackobs 27:22

Yeah.

Melanie Benson 27:22

I, and I would love you to

Tom Jackobs 27:23

Oh, of course.

Melanie Benson 27:23

go and get it. I highly recommend. Please give me a little shout-out and let me know what was the aha moment for you around it.

Tom Jackobs 27:30

That's great. And Melanie, thank you so much for spending the time with our audience today as well. I certainly appreciate it. I got so much out of our short conversation here today. But, thank you again for sharing your wisdom, sharing your guidance, and just being awesome in general.

Melanie Benson 27:45

Thank you. Ah it was a beautiful conversation. You're an amazing host. I hope you guys are sharing this podcast, giving Tom some massive love on whatever platform. Give him a little rating. Let's give him some five stars for creating so many amazing conversations. That means the world to a show host

Tom Jackobs 28:03

Yeah.

Melanie Benson 28:04

and gonna help other people find this great show. So thank you, Tom. Thank you for creating such a powerful conversation.

Tom Jackobs 28:11

Oh, you're very welcome. And thank you, show listeners, for tuning in today. We really do appreciate you as well. So make sure you're checking out everything that Melanie's doing. All those notes are gonna be down in the show notes, the links and everything, so make sure you're clicking away there and giving Melanie some love on social media. She'll certainly appreciate that. But you're gonna get a lot of value out of that, that gift that she's given, so make sure you're checking that out. And while you're down there, if you could do what Melanie just asked you to do as well, give us a rating and review. That just helps spread the word and helps people realize that you can have a heart-led business and make a profit. So until next time, lead with your heart.

Speaker 2 28:52

You've been listening to The Heart-Led Business Show, hosted by Tom Jackobs. Join us next time for another inspiring journey into the heart of business.