Speaker: 0:01

Welcome to The Heart-Led Business Show, where compassion meets commerce and leaders lead with love. Join your host, Tom Jackobs, as he delves into the insightful conversations with visionary business leaders who defy the status quo, putting humanity first and profit second. From heartfelt strategies to inspiring stories, this podcast is your compass in the world of conscious capitalism. So buckle up and let your heart guide your business journey.

Tom Jackobs: 0:36

Well, welcome back to the Heart-Led Business Show. Today we are thrilled to have the dynamic Dr. Dave Jones in the house. From taking slap shots in Europe's hockey arenas to founding M is Good. A Christian advertising agency that has blessed over 1,000 ministries. Dave's journey is as compelling as a championship game with his knack for uniting excellence in the marketplace and a heart as big as his hockey dreams. He's here to share insights on leading with love in business. Buckle up for a heartwarming discussion. Dr. Dave, welcome to the show.

Dr Dave Jones: 1:11

Thank you for having me, Tom, I'm so excited to be here.

Tom Jackobs: 1:15

That's awesome. And I am super excited as well to dive into your story because I think it's just fascinating just how you've been able to wrap everything together and create a business. But before we do that, of course, I always like to ask the first question, which is, what's your definition of a heart-led business?

Dr Dave Jones: 1:32

Yeah, such a great question. And I think in the last 10 years I've tried to lead this way. And it's really, to me, it's leading with intimacy and transparency. And leading with your heart means being open, right? And being transparent for me. And I think God has blessed that we all go through struggles. And my point of view, or the way I look at life isn't awesome all the time for anybody. There's peaks and valleys, mentally, emotionally, physically, spiritually. And we have to recognize those times where we're in the valley and we're in a peak. And I think more people are willing to jump on and help you if you just open up to them, whether it's business or personal. Yes, we have to deliver a certain deliverable at, at the end of the day. But just being transparent about where you're at and sharing your life with people is important.

Tom Jackobs: 2:22

Yeah, absolutely. So what would a or how would you describe somebody leading with intimacy and transparency? What might that look like in the workplace?

Dr Dave Jones: 2:31

Yeah. I think for us it's, it's radically different. I've had I would say I dipped my toe in corporate America that I don't want to be part of it. And so I, I think it's pretty easy to see, like when somebody's leading with fear and somebody's leading with anger and pride, and I used to be that person, so I recognize it, when you put somebody down, I used to think that I could get ahead in life if I put everybody else down that I would be the last man standing and I would be tall. And so, it doesn't work that way. And so, um, I had to learn the hard way on that. And so I think it's fairly easy for me to see when somebody's leading that way'cause that was me at one time. I think your fear, your loss, your anger and your pride lead you. Vision doesn't lead you, your emotions lead you. Years ago I wrote this article on emotional intelligence and, I've defined high EI and low EI. So when you're high EI you lead with vision. You're very much growth, have a growth mindset. When you're low EI you lead with emotions. You're very emotional person. People are exhausted when they're around you. That's some tips. I can't remember'em all, but one of them is, I can't sleep at night when I'm low EI If, I don't know, I'm low EI, but at the end of the day, I can't sleep because I'm thinking about what I said to somebody, you're low EI. You know, so when you lead with emotions and you just don't feel good about who you are in your own skin, this is what I would defined as low EI and leading in a non-effective way.

Tom Jackobs: 3:59

So what does the opposite look like then in terms of somebody that's leading with transparency and open and honest with everybody.

Dr Dave Jones: 4:06

Yeah, it's great. It's great question. There's four major areas here that I think not all, it's not an inclusive list, a complete list. But these are the big ones. Fear. I'm leading with fear. The opposite would be I'm leading in faith. And so there's very distinct uh, behaviors with fear and faith. I could talk about those, just one or two bullet points on each. Fear is, you know, I'm holding on to things. I don't trust anybody. I want to control everything.

Tom Jackobs: 4:35

Guilty at some point in my life.

Dr Dave Jones: 4:40

Yeah, that'd be pretty easy to see. And then faith's opposite of that faith is very much, it's intimate. I don't know where we're going. Here's the roadmap. I need your help gals. I need your help. This is where we're going. I don't know the next step, but if we do it together, we'll succeed or failure, but we're gonna do it together. Let's venture out. So faith is just the opposite of fear. So when we talk about fear, lust, you know, most people see lust as something that's sexual. It can be where you're addicted to that side of things. That was never me. I was very fortunate in that. I think lust can be things that like, like things that you want, that you, you lust for, whether it's a house, a car more money, it's something that you wanna possess. That's ineffective. I, I'm not saying that you, you don't want a bigger house or a nicer car. I think those things are awesome, honestly. But it's how you get about'em. If I'm working hard, I'm growing and changing, those things just come about. But if I'm really lusting for'em. And it's, it is different.

Tom Jackobs: 5:37

Yeah, because you're putting a lot of emphasis on getting that material thing and you're almost obsessing about it to a point where it's not really healthy. That's at least how I see that lustfulness.

Dr Dave Jones: 5:50

Yeah. So it's like, I'm gonna get those and those things are gonna define me. So people, power and possessions will define me when I get there. That, That lens is left with a lot of heartbreak, a lot of depression and anxiety and stress. So the opposite of that would be love. So I love to give, I'm grateful. Love breaks the back of lust, it's better to give than it is to receive, that's the opposite. Whereas lust says, I'm gonna take and hold on and hold on. It's about me.

Tom Jackobs: 6:20

Great examples there as well. So, tell us a little bit about your backstory and what led you up to what you're doing today.

Dr Dave Jones: 6:29

The reason I can talk about this stuff so freely is'cause those all those things just define me. So I grew up in a hockey rink. I looked at thing I looked at attention differently. I realized that if I scored a bunch of goals, I could get lots of attention. So I just figured out how to score more goals.

Tom Jackobs: 6:45

Yeah.

Dr Dave Jones: 6:46

And so I got pretty good at scoring goals and I became a pretty good hockey player. And so I just grew up in a rink until I was about 25. But when I was playing for Cleveland, think I was 21 or 22, I was in Kalamazoo K-Wing Stadium, and I got a slap shot in the face. That broke my nose in three different directions,

Tom Jackobs: 7:05

oh

Dr Dave Jones: 7:05

cut the nerves, my teeth and my mouth and I had a deviated septum.

Tom Jackobs: 7:10

Oh wow.

Dr Dave Jones: 7:11

And those your listeners out there know a hockey rink. I fell to my knees at the right around the blue line and I went all the way into the goal line, and blood was just pumping outta my nose. And the trainer came over with a white towel. And put it on my face. And by the time we got back to the bench, that white towel was red.

Tom Jackobs: 7:26

oh,

Dr Dave Jones: 7:27

and if you can see like you can, like my nose is just still today it's lopsided.

Tom Jackobs: 7:31

That's pretty incredible too.

Dr Dave Jones: 7:33

Yeah. So that began a change for me of, what the heck am I doing? So I ended up taking some time off and then I ended up going over to Europe and playing and chasing a pro career from there. I got a couple more concussions there. I ended up with seven concussions. Um, The last one I had was back in 2013 and I still, maybe it's a culmination of all the other concussions, but I got a slap shot and it hit my temple and cracked my skull with internal bleeding. And to this day I still manage that. It's something about fatigue. Like I have to sleep, I have to get a certain amount of hours of sleep. I have to protect my sleep. And I take nootropics like an over the counter supplement to help me with brain fog.

Tom Jackobs: 8:16

That's crazy. You just looking at brain scans too, have you had your brain scan to see what might be going on in there and.

Dr Dave Jones: 8:24

I haven't had one in the last couple years, but now that you said it, I probably should go get another one. Yeah. Just to check it out.

Tom Jackobs: 8:31

I mean there's some pretty amazing stuff. I work with a lot of functional medicine docs and there's stuff that they're working on with brain health that's non-invasive and can help with helping reprogram, especially around concussions and some of the issues that come up with that as well.

Dr Dave Jones: 8:46

I definitely need to, I need to schedule that. Thank you for that.

Tom Jackobs: 8:49

Yeah, no worries. So you're in Europe and you're getting slapped around quite a bit then what happens?

Dr Dave Jones: 8:55

And I basically ended my career there. Moved to Colorado. I was 25, 26 years old at that time. I met my wife in Germany. So fiance, we got engaged. I'm still married to her today. It's been 25 years. She was actually from Pennsylvania who just going over there to visit friends and we ended up meeting, which is crazy.

Tom Jackobs: 9:16

That's crazy.

Dr Dave Jones: 9:17

It's a totally God thing. And so moved to Denver, Colorado and then eventually moved to Greenville, North Carolina. I started the company from Greenville, North Carolina. Now I live in Raleigh, North Carolina.

Tom Jackobs: 9:30

And the company the advertising agency or the?

Dr Dave Jones: 9:33

Yep. So M is Good. It was originally called Marketing Ministries. And so the technical name is Marketing Ministry is doing business as M is Good today, so it's our 25th year.

Tom Jackobs: 9:42

That's amazing. So how do you balance then, just talking more on the business side of being a heart-led business. How do you balance making a profit and still being heart-led and everything that comes along with that?

Dr Dave Jones: 9:56

I don't know the right answer here. I knew this question was coming. Because like Tom, I'm like, this is what happened to me, and so this is how I balance. It's a great question. I don't think I have the right answer. I felt that when I wasn't leading with profitability, I was being used, I was being run over and so I had to say. I had to put down a boundary here. In order for me to get respect, I had to lay a boundary down. And so this is the cost and here's how much time I'm gonna spend, and if you need me to spend more time, then we need to look at the cost. Like we had to balance that. So I just got really abused by it, honestly, and I wish it was a different story, but it was being abused by pastors. Yeah, that we just say

Tom Jackobs: 10:41

So you kinda swung the, all the way over to the one side. Totally heart-led and not looking at the profit and just giving, giving, giving without getting anything in return.

Dr Dave Jones: 10:50

That's right. It was just a wake up call and I'm thankful. I am really thankful. I won't say the pastor's name, but I said, Hey, we were producing his television show for years. Like I was a friend. And I said, Hey it's, I don't remember the numbers exactly, but it was like, Hey, we spent a hundred hours, doing your program here and here's what we charged, but we only billed you for 70 and it took us a hundred. And he just looked me in the eye look at me in the eye. It was like just an everyday conversation. Said, Hey Dave, I didn't write the proposal. You did, you spent 30 more hours. That's your fault. He's I'm not paying$30, 30, 30 hours more. You didn't manage your time rate. Why is that my problem? And I was like he's right. And you know what's cool about that? I, looking back on it, the next year I wrote it for a hundred hours and he couldn't afford it. And so I lost the business. So then I just said, you know what, from now on, I'm just gonna make sure I build in the profitability and the scope creep is what we call it. So then that began this transformation of, all right we either need bigger clients or we just got to, find clients that can pay what we're worth. And so it's just been a series of that and finding clients. And now I look at it as I've taken care of the border, the boundary that I laid. Now, the profitability is something that I can be a blessing to other people. Like doing this podcast on a nice podcast set because I could afford the technology to be able to do it is a blessing to me to be able to give back, and so I look at it that way. It's can you really be a blessing without profitability? You can, it's just harder.

Tom Jackobs: 12:20

It's so interesting, like when I speak to a lot of heart-led business owners and they talk about not having the profitability and just the struggles that they're having, and then making the suggestion why don't you raise your rate? Oh, I could never raise my rates. That's all. But I, so it is like this double edged sword. But then when you say what would you do with that extra money that you have? And then you just see their eyes light up and think about what they could do in terms of the giving and the impact that they could have if they have the financial resources to be able to do that. And I think that's a huge difference between profit led versus heart-led folks, whereas profit LED is just looking to accumulate more profit

Dr Dave Jones: 13:00

Mm-hmm.

Tom Jackobs: 13:01

and for profit's sake versus heart-led wants to add that profit so that they can do more and better things with the extra profit as well.

Dr Dave Jones: 13:11

Yeah, I really got intimate with myself and really kinda looked at what was the underlying issue, like what was truly the issue. I boiled down to one thing, it was my self image. How I saw myself in terms of value what I bring and when my self image increased, my rates did. I looked at two like, I can't increase my rates. Why can't you? Because there's somebody in the same field as you, hundreds of them, maybe thousands of them that charge way more than you. Why is that?

Tom Jackobs: 13:42

Okay.

Dr Dave Jones: 13:42

When charging less and you're not profitable and you're stressed out, who are you good to in this case? So it came down to what is my worth? What do I see myself as my worth? So I went from like we have this one product maybe talk about today's R7. I went, R7 was free at one point, and then it went from free to$500. And I'm spending 10 sessions, almost 20 hours with clients. It went from free to 500 to 1,500 to 2,500 to 5,000 today it's 10,000. And I'm like, what changed? What changed Dave's perception of his identity and what that consultation is gonna do for the client and the deliverables is what changed?

Tom Jackobs: 14:22

And then you can do so much more with that additional profit versus spending all that time for free. Now you become resentful and then you're then you don't provide the best for your clients, your family, your friends, it just, it's a downward spiral versus when you have enough profit in there, you're more relaxed, you make better decisions, and you generally a happier person as well, because you're not as, as stressed out and not, kicking the dog when you come into the house at night.

Dr Dave Jones: 14:51

Yeah. I also think too, like you're spot on, I think, in terms of, but I think goes a little further into that, I can hire better people. We could put on a better product, we can be more accountable. And for me, we're in the Christian space. I want to glorify the Lord with my talents and my abilities at the end of the day, I want to hear the words well done, good and faithful servant at the end of the road. I want the time to be able to think this through. This isn't about me having something bigger and better, whether it's a house or a boat or a car. This is about having the profitability to bring on quality people to deliver a quality product. That's the way I look at profitability.

Tom Jackobs: 15:28

Absolutely. And if you don't have both of those things, then you're not gonna have be in business for very long.

Dr Dave Jones: 15:33

That's right.

Tom Jackobs: 15:34

For sure. Yeah.

Dr Dave Jones: 15:34

That's it.

Tom Jackobs: 15:35

Cool. How do you work with employees to make sure that they're following the same heart-led approach that you have?

Dr Dave Jones: 15:42

Not well.

Tom Jackobs: 15:47

I like your transparency and honesty.

Dr Dave Jones: 15:49

I have a small staff and I really like my staff right now. This is probably the best staff I've ever had. We have a standard and we try to hit that standard every day. And I try to give everybody the opportunity to become the best version of themself. I love to find what people are good at my staff and just put him in that position to win. I think there does come a line where they're not delivering, they're not happy. And I can see that. And I feel like our vision and our mission at M is Good, is pretty strong in what we're doing. So they just weed themselves out, honestly. It's my 25th year and I've had, I don't wanna say lots of turnover, but I have turnover. And every single situation happens where it's like they just leave because they're just not in their space.

Tom Jackobs: 16:35

Yeah.

Dr Dave Jones: 16:35

You know, something happens where it's like they just, they identify themselves.

Tom Jackobs: 16:40

Yeah, that's good on, on that side. And then even better when you can see them really flourish in a job and go beyond whatever your expectations are. I have, I have a staff member right now that's like that, and I'm just like, every time that I see stuff from them, it's, I'm like, wow, this is really amazing and I'm so happy that, they're on the team.

Dr Dave Jones: 17:01

Yeah.

Tom Jackobs: 17:01

it makes life so much easier. Everything is running. What type of interview process or hiring process do you have to make sure you're getting the right people?

Dr Dave Jones: 17:10

Yeah, I just try to be open and transparent in what we do. I think that, by just the name, M is Good and we're a Christian ad agency, that sort of, allows people to know that we're a Christian ad agency and these are the beliefs and we have Christian clients and employees that are coming in, they understand that now it's not my place to judge them where they're on, in terms of their walk with the Lord. I don't get in the middle of that ever'cause I don't want to be their judge, I don't want any of that. So we've been, so that's built in and I think the trick is really when you're trying to find somebody's passion in the marketing, the messaging, the design, the building stuff, whether it's a website, a landing page, client facing, non-client, like finding that skill development in them is something that takes time and you just have to be patient with where they're gonna land. And I think I've done a pretty good job of that. I too have a similar person like you were describing on your staff who came in as a graphic designer. Now he's the VP of the company

Tom Jackobs: 18:12

Yeah.

Dr Dave Jones: 18:12

I recognize his skill and talent every single day. Absolutely love him and everything he does for the business and our clients. It's unreal. Like I just feel so blessed to have him on staff.

Tom Jackobs: 18:23

Yeah, it just make, makes life so much easier

Dr Dave Jones: 18:25

Oh my gosh.

Tom Jackobs: 18:26

you know, that are I like what you said, get them into the position where they can win.

Dr Dave Jones: 18:31

Yeah.

Tom Jackobs: 18:31

love that, that philosophy. That's great. So Dave, how can people find more about, or find out more about M is Good and potentially work with you?

Dr Dave Jones: 18:40

One of the things that we've done really well over the years is we've really owned the keyword Christian marketing. So you can Google Christian marketing, M is Good comes up, or you can go to misgood.com and find us there, and if you wanna talk to me specifically, there's plenty of opportunities on the, let's chat, let's chats everywhere on the website. I see all the leads that come through and everybody that comes through and yeah. So that's how you can get ahold of us.

Tom Jackobs: 19:03

Nice. And, And what type of businesses do you like to work with or what's kinda your ideal client?

Dr Dave Jones: 19:08

Yeah, I I would say obviously you know, they're glorifying the Lord with some level, whether it's they're Christian business owner, or they have the Christian business owner with a secular business or just they have a ministry. I think we do well with Christian organizations that are 5 to 10 years into it, two to 3 million in some type of revenue. We do okay with startups. The reason I'm saying that is we do really well with conversion. We do messaging and KPI management really well. It just takes time for customer acquisition. And when you're talking about time, you're talking about money.

Tom Jackobs: 19:44

Yep.

Dr Dave Jones: 19:44

so there's gotta be a certain level of a budget to be able to ride that conversion timeframe.

Tom Jackobs: 19:50

Yep.

Dr Dave Jones: 19:51

If the budget's not there, then it just doesn't work.

Tom Jackobs: 19:54

Yeah. I'm finding that out the hard way over the last couple of years. So, um, yeah, it's fascinating just as I dig a little bit deeper into the marketing aspects it's just fascinating. I love just learning all that stuff.

Dr Dave Jones: 20:07

Yeah.

Tom Jackobs: 20:07

Yeah, what a great service too that you're offering.

Dr Dave Jones: 20:11

Thank you.

Tom Jackobs: 20:11

Very awesome. So, Dave, thank you again for being on the show today and just sharing your stories, your wisdom, kind of the advice for other heart-led businesses, and just being a great example of being a heart-led business owner. So thank you. Thank you very much.

Dr Dave Jones: 20:24

I appreciate your time and I'm thankful for being on your podcast today, Tom. Thank you.

Tom Jackobs: 20:28

You're very welcome and thank you listeners for tuning in today and listening to the Heart-Led Business Show. Make sure you're checking everything out that Dr. Dave has, and we're gonna put all that down into the show notes, so you can just click on the link there to get to his website and find out more about M is Good. And while you're down there, if you could do me a favor and give the show a rating and review. That definitely helps spread the word about Heart-Led Business Show, and as we highlight more businesses that are heart-led in the world. So until next time, lead with your heart.

Speaker 2: 21:01

You've been listening to The Heart-Led Business Show, hosted by Tom Jackobs. Join us next time for another inspiring journey into the heart of business.