Speaker: 0:01

Welcome to The Heart-Led Business Show, where compassion meets commerce and leaders lead with love. Join your host, Tom Jackobs, as he delves into the insightful conversations with visionary business leaders who defy the status quo, putting humanity first and profit second. From heartfelt strategies to inspiring stories, this podcast is your compass in the world of conscious capitalism. So buckle up and let your heart guide your business journey.

Tom Jackobs: 0:36

Today we have the pleasure of speaking with Andrew Grinbaum, a masterful entrepreneur who's been a five time business builder, an MBA professor, and your go-to guide for heart-centered leadership with a sprinkle of mindfulness and a dash of meditation. Andrew empowers executives to elevate their enterprises while enriching their lives. Get ready to unlock the secret to creating a business that thrives without driving you into the ground. So let's dive in. Andrew, welcome to the show.

Andrew Grinbaum: 1:06

Thanks a lot. That was great. Great intro.

Tom Jackobs: 1:09

Well, thanks. So I'm, I'm really excited to dive into your background and what's gotten you to the point of being heart-led'cause you do have a really interesting background and a lot of different things that you're working on. But first, of course, I always like to ask people, what's your definition of a heart-led business?

Andrew Grinbaum: 1:26

So that's a great question, and the answer to that is gonna be a little bit long, but I hope it'll make sense. As I mentioned to you, I've been studying Kabbalah for over 30 years, and I use it with my my companies and my clients' companies. And there is a concept in the Kabbalah called a three column system. I use that with all my clients, use it with myself, use it to build my businesses. And that's understanding that there's three forces at work. We have, we see it in circuitry today that's how we can talk about it. There's three forces at work. One of'em is called the right column, which is the sharing part of you. It's what you naturally are really good at. That's the right column. What you naturally are good at, you're good at public speaking, right? That's your right column. You can naturally share with people. Connect with people. That's great. There's also the left column, which is what you wanna receive. That's a really important part of any circuit. And that's what we want. And we should be a little bit selfish, right? We should know what we want, right? How can you get there if you don't know what you want? So that's really an important part of it. But the third part is called the central column or the third column. It's what you need to restrict to reveal everything you want in life. And that comes in by connecting to your heart primarily cause your heart knows, or as I'll let we call it in Kabbalah, the soul is the seed of the heart. So it's a very quiet voice. It's here, that little voice. When you calm down and when you listen to your heart, which is really your soul, you know exactly what to do, and most of our problems come. I'm sure you'll agree. Most of our problems come from a place of knowing what we need to do, and we don't do it. Or not doing the thing that little voice inside us, our soul is telling us to do. And so that's where I try to steer my clients is to these two parts. A lot of people understand, right? They learn through coaching, through personal development, professional development, what they're really good at, right? And they oftentimes start businesses around what they're great at. The second part is actually pretty hard. It becomes harder for heart-led people because oh, I don't, I just wanna share. I don't wanna be selfish. No, you have to be selfish. You have to know what you want exactly. Do you wanna make$10 million next year or 5 million? You know, how many people aren't working for you? What sort of business you wanna create? That's the kind of like the nuts and bolts of business coaching, let's say. Right? Helping figure that out. But the central column, the heart part is actually a very practical part, and I try to lead clients into the first two parts they get. The third part is sometimes very difficult for people because it, it takes calming down, it takes listening to your soul or your heart, and that's what I think a heart-led business is. I hope I'm answering your question. It's such a deep question. We could talk about it in every podcast, which is what you do. It was a great podcast. But that's what it's about. And that's my job as a coach sometimes to push back in a very careful way, right? Or to open up space for people to see that they're not doing the thing that they need to be doing. And somehow through conversations, I hear their heart talking but they're still too focused on being oversharing or over wanting. So I hope that makes sense.

Tom Jackobs: 4:39

Yeah, it definitely does and I feel like a lot of the heart-centered entrepreneurs are in the oversharing and they like to just give everything away. And they don't restrict the number of people that like free stuff from them versus paying for their service and their knowledge as well. I, I really like that, the restrict piece as well, because I think people have a hard time saying no to things and thinking, especially if you're in that scarcity mindset

Andrew Grinbaum: 5:07

Absolutely.

Tom Jackobs: 5:08

And a new opportunity comes by and you're like, oh my gosh, this is the most amazing opportunity, but it has no alignment to your business, to your heart, to your passion or purpose. That's a bad thing to do, but a lot of people unfortunately, take that up because.

Andrew Grinbaum: 5:21

Correct.

Tom Jackobs: 5:22

They're in that scarcity mindset. How

Andrew Grinbaum: 5:24

do you help

Tom Jackobs: 5:24

people get through those type of moments?

Andrew Grinbaum: 5:26

Yeah, no, that's a really great question. I always start with about five. My first five or six sessions with people is getting clear on their, what we call in cabal, the left column, what they desire.

Tom Jackobs: 5:36

Yeah.

Andrew Grinbaum: 5:36

You know if you can, and that's really important for heart-led and for spiritual CEOs and business owners. And founders, yes, they often overshare, it's okay to share. You have to learn how to share, right? But you should first define the first five or six sessions is all about them, all about really getting clear on what they want to do in this world. What they want to achieve, both for humanity and for the planet, but also for themselves. Very important. You know, not all of us can be a Mother Teresa, and first of all, we have to make money. And in fact, if you're offering, the better product you share, the more heart- based offer you have, actually you should be charging even more because there's a lot of commodities out there. And we come from a real authentic place. We have actual things to offer the marketplace that are life changing. And if you have something that's life changing, you have to get paid for it. So we define what does that look like, and, and then what I do is I reference that, I just had, I was telling you right before the show began that I was like, what am I gonna, I wanna tell some stories. And of course, right before this, I had a client who wants to quit coaching. She had some setbacks and she, she's in a long-term contract and I'm like, no, you're gonna do the coaching. And I know you've had these setbacks and I know it's been tough and somebody ripped her off like$10,000 and it's horrible. She just wants to quit everything. I'm like no. This is the time to buckle down. Remember what you wanna do. She actually wants, she has an incredible product to bring natural natural fibers in sportswear. It's a really great thing. All these athletes are wearing a lot of polyester and it's not healthy for them. And it, the data shows that it's scientifically proven. I'm like, you're bringing something so incredible to the marketplace. Don't quit now. I know you've had some, six months has been slow going, but I remind her what she's here to accomplish. Stick with it and in six months, see where you're at. But certainly if you pull back, then nothing's gonna happen.

Tom Jackobs: 7:35

Exactly.

Andrew Grinbaum: 7:35

Right? So we go back to the root. That's why it's so important to get clear on what your purpose is, right? What your vision is, what your values are, but really authentic values. I study Kabbalah, which is mysticism, and some people say do you have to believe in God to study Kabbalah. No, you don't. Because an Atheist can have values and they oftentimes, they can be a great humanist, they can have great values, ethics, all these things matter. All of these things matter, and you have to get clear on them. Some of my clients are Evangelical Christians, some are Atheists. I take'em all as long as they wanna make a difference in the world, right? So all those people, whether you're an Evangel Christian or an Atheist, or somewhere in between, you can still have a mission and a purpose and great values, right? And what you want to achieve, right? With that, you are bringing all this to the marketplace. Great. What do you want for yourself? We always go back to that. What do you want for yourself? Now you have to restrict. It's gonna be tough for her. It's a tough week, really tough, where, she just, somebody's not cooperating with her, ripped her off. It's the end of the year. You just wanna just quit. I get it. But if she connects with her heart, and that's where a lot of meditation work comes in, she really just calms down, just relaxes, meditates, goes out in nature, whatever she needs to do, she will reconnect with her heart and she wants to change the world. So that's more important than any sort of minor setback. In the big picture,$10,000 is a lot of money, but in the big picture, it's really not when you're changing the world.

Tom Jackobs: 9:08

Yeah, and that's interesting too when people have those little setbacks and then they wanna quit doing something because of a setback, rather than looking at the bigger picture of what, what's really going on. I think if you don't have a strong, north star or purpose or drive, that's gonna be very easy to give up on stuff

Andrew Grinbaum: 9:29

Yep,

Tom Jackobs: 9:30

just say, oh, the hero, it's not working again. So onto the next thing. And I know I, I've definitely been down that road. I think we've all been down that

Andrew Grinbaum: 9:37

me too. For sure.

Tom Jackobs: 9:38

shiny object syndrome.

Andrew Grinbaum: 9:40

Yeah.

Tom Jackobs: 9:40

grass is greener on the other side, but when we stick to stuff and we stick with our principles and our purpose, that's when life gets really fun.

Andrew Grinbaum: 9:49

And I always remind people I like the the analogy of, I don't know whether it's apocryphal, it really happened, right? Edison broke 10,000 light bulbs to get to, I dunno if it's 10,000 or 1,000. Sure he tried long time ago.

Tom Jackobs: 10:01

Tried a lot, right?

Andrew Grinbaum: 10:03

He tried a lot. And he's a great change agent. Literally brought light to the world. I am sure. After maybe 500 experiments, that failed. Nobody would've faulted him for quitting, right? His wife, I was calling, Hey Charles, maybe, right? Charles, that I forgot his first name. Charles, right? Thomas. Sorry. Oh my God. Sorry. Sorry. It's late. It's late here. Thomas, maybe you wanna come in. I made you dinner. The kids miss you. Nobody would've faulted him. So we have to keep going and you have to ask yourself. Most of us quit way before the 500th failure. And the greatest people were extremists. I, I talk a lot with my clients about business leaders and famous historical leaders. They're all crazy extremists. The successful people.

Tom Jackobs: 10:48

Yeah.

Andrew Grinbaum: 10:48

Crazy people in a good way. Like they don't quit. They have this tenacity to never quit. All right. So that's also a big part of it because it's, it is so easy to quit. It's easy. You're given, oh, you were okay. You tried. In our society, it's okay to try. That's not what entrepreneurs do. We can't just try, we don't get a a medal for that.

Tom Jackobs: 11:11

No. Participation revenue.

Andrew Grinbaum: 11:12

Participation trophy. In the back you don't get that.

Tom Jackobs: 11:15

Yeah.

Andrew Grinbaum: 11:15

So people pat your, oh, good job. You tried great, and then you come to the end of your life and you're like, oh, all these things I could have could've done, coulda, shoulda, would've.

Tom Jackobs: 11:24

Yeah. Oh, wow. I'd like to kinda go back just a little bit and get your backstory in terms of how you came about using Kabbalah as a coaching methodology.

Andrew Grinbaum: 11:33

Yeah, that's a great question. I found during grad school, a Kabbalah class, and I started taking it. I thought, wow, this is really interesting because growing up I went to Hebrew school, I grew up Jewish in the Jewish faith, and no matter what kind of religious schooling you go to, whether it's Jewish, Christian, Catholic, they don't answer your questions if you have deep questions. They just don't have the answers. So I got really disenchanted with the whole religious thing. I was just a cultural Jew. I didn't connect to anything like that. And when I found the Kabbalah, it was a place where I said, ask any question and don't believe anything we say. That's the teach. Don't believe anything we say. Prove it to yourself and there's no question you can't ask. And I like that. I started using it practically. It's a practical philosophy. It's a practical system. It's not just philosophy. It's, there's practical tools that go back. Actually, the first book of Kabbalah, a lot of people don't know this. It predates the Bible by 400 years. During by Abraham the patriarch.

Tom Jackobs: 12:33

Okay.

Andrew Grinbaum: 12:34

People don't know that before the Bible, there was other books or, we know there's other books before the Bible, but Abraham wrote a book. So it, it's very ancient and it's a technology that you can utilize in your life to improve it. And the way I learned Kabbalah, it's almost like you can look at Moses as the spiritual leader, but I look him more as the ancient Tony Robbins. And, and Abraham and all these guys and women too, they had these techniques to be successful. And we see that a lot of people in the Bible were extraordinary successful. And by the way, extraordinarily rich. In Jewish synagogues, they read about Joseph. And Joseph, right? We know this from, even if you don't read the Bible, you've probably seen one of the movies, Joseph in it, right? The Prince of Egypt and all these things. He was the richest person maybe in the world who ever lived, and they called him Yosef HaTzaddik Joseph, the righteous. So you can be righteous, whatever that means to you, and be rich. Okay? That's one of the things I learned too, because I growing up in the Judeo-Christian world, we're often taught that money is evil. We have it somehow in us. It's the love of money that's evil, but we have this guilt around it. And coming from, I immigrated from the Soviet Union very poor. Everybody was poor in my family, parents, grandparents, everything grew up poor. So you have this thing around money.

Tom Jackobs: 13:56

Yeah.

Andrew Grinbaum: 13:56

And first place, I learned really the power of money, how important it's to have money is in the Kabbalah. When I learned about all these guys wait a minute, Jacob, Abraham, Joseph, all these guys we're super rich. And we remember them thousands of years later. So I started using it in, after I finished grad school, I got a job in publishing in corporate America, and about a year into it, I'm like, I grew so much in Kabbalah using these kind of like ancient personal development techniques.

Tom Jackobs: 14:26

Yeah.

Andrew Grinbaum: 14:26

Then, I quit corporate America. And in the 90's when nobody was doing it, I became a consultant. I was working from home. I had a phone, I had a fax machine. That was my, if I remember those fax machine. I had a phone, like a dial up. I think

Tom Jackobs: 14:40

yeah.

Andrew Grinbaum: 14:41

I may have had a headset,

Tom Jackobs: 14:43

Yeah.

Andrew Grinbaum: 14:44

and I became a consultant because I said, you know what, nobody's listening to me and I want to do something more than just be, than just work in corporate America. But it was funny back then, nobody worked from home. When COVID hit, everybody started working from home. I'm like, welcome, welcome to the war. Welcome to the future. I've been doing it since the 90's, but it was funny because, I'd work from home and people, nobody understood what I was doing. I'm like, I'm consulting, Can't you pick up my dry cleaning? You're just at home.

Tom Jackobs: 15:12

Right.

Andrew Grinbaum: 15:13

No, I'm actually working, I'm developing projects and then I was doing a lot of marketing consulting, putting together marketing projects for my clients like you're at home.

Tom Jackobs: 15:22

Yeah.

Andrew Grinbaum: 15:22

So that was a whole, that's a whole other story. But it was very funny'cause people literally thought, and my parents, God bless them, they didn't get it until I got myself an office. I opened my first business, I opened up, one of my first businesses was executive suites, and there I had an office and they're like, okay, Andy has an office.

Tom Jackobs: 15:39

Now you have a real job,

Andrew Grinbaum: 15:41

I have real job.

Tom Jackobs: 15:42

an office.

Andrew Grinbaum: 15:43

Yeah. And they also got, they got the executive suites because it was like a store, with a bunch of offices you can sell. So they asked me, how many stores do you have? I have three now this year, and then I have four and I have five. It's okay, Andy's got five stores. We get that.

Tom Jackobs: 15:56

Okay. Yeah. It's tangible.

Andrew Grinbaum: 15:58

So it came together, right? I was learning everything about business and then it was great to be a, throw myself into it at 20 or three or 24,

Tom Jackobs: 16:06

Wow.

Andrew Grinbaum: 16:06

Be a consultant, figure it out. Then I only charge 40 or 60 bucks an hour, whatever. I still more than I can make in corporate America.

Tom Jackobs: 16:14

Yeah.

Andrew Grinbaum: 16:14

And people listened to me. That was really important. I kind of skipped over those entry level positions where nobody listens to you. I see this with my clients who are executives. This is the problem with, there's corporate governance, there's teams. Even if you're an executive, doesn't mean anybody's listening to you. So when somebody hires me, they pay me for my ideas. And I love that. Even if I was only making 40 bucks, as a 23 or 24-year-old, 40 bucks an hour, it was like amazing cause people hid me for my idea. And it was great. And then I incorporated Kabbalah into it. I just didn't call it Kabbalah. I called it personal development or leadership. Right? There's a lot of leadership principles in there.

Tom Jackobs: 16:56

What type of reaction do you get from people when they start to hire you and you bring in Kabbalah, or do they know from the onset that you're gonna be using Kabbalah and so you attract the right type of person.

Andrew Grinbaum: 17:09

That's a great story. So over the past year, I've been totally out of the closet about it. In the beginning, I would frame it under leadership and personal development, but that's one of the big changes I made. And I started a nonprofit called Spirituality and Business Institute, where I'm totally out about it. I'm an executive director of a nonprofit that's bringing Kabbalah and spiritual techniques to the business world and combining it with scaling. Business scaling, which a lot of different people do, EOS and so forth.

Tom Jackobs: 17:38

Sure.

Andrew Grinbaum: 17:38

A lot of folks do that. So I'm totally out about it and it was really scary to come out. It's amazing how open people today are spiritually hungry. We are living in a different world today. There's so many problems in the world and people are getting that. There's spiritual problems, their soul level, heart level problems, right? We're disconnected from each other. Everybody's fighting each other. In our country, within countries, there's a mental health crisis that all sorts of things going on. Everybody's afraid we're gonna be replaced with AI.

Tom Jackobs: 18:10

Right.

Andrew Grinbaum: 18:11

So it's a spiritual, and it's not like we don't have abundance. There's so much out there, there's so much wealth.

Tom Jackobs: 18:18

Yeah.

Andrew Grinbaum: 18:18

And so many opportunities, right? We can just get online, we can talk to each other halfway around the world,

Tom Jackobs: 18:24

Literally. Right?

Andrew Grinbaum: 18:25

Literally. And so the opportunities are endless but it's very scary times. So people are realizing, I see today exec, like high level CEOs go on a conference call with their team and cry over something. You couldn't do that 20 years ago. If you're a CEO and you cry about the play of the world, you're gonna get fired.

Tom Jackobs: 18:43

Yeah.

Andrew Grinbaum: 18:43

So yeah, like gay people are very open, they're much more open. So I really encourage people be totally out about being heart-led, being spiritual, being soft on the inside, people want to see and that's who they want to follow. So actually, some of my most successful clients are the most authentic clients. They're really open. They don't hold anything back. Maybe good, maybe bad, but they're very open about who they are.

Tom Jackobs: 19:11

Yeah.

Andrew Grinbaum: 19:11

So I think it's a great time and it was very scary for me. Of course to say I'm a capitalist and who does he think he is? He's a capitalist. He's studying this mysticism. But I was at a conference like a month ago in Guatemala at a tech and finance conference. I spoke on spirituality and business and a hundred people came up to me afterwards,

Tom Jackobs: 19:32

Wow.

Andrew Grinbaum: 19:32

asking me questions. Tech, tech people, finance people, people you'd never think they're all open.

Tom Jackobs: 19:38

Yeah.

Andrew Grinbaum: 19:39

So it's a great time to be coming from your heart. Great time.

Tom Jackobs: 19:43

That's amazing. What type of shifts have you seen with either yourself or with clients after kinda, this all just kinda clicks in their mind and in their heart, and they start to see some changes.

Andrew Grinbaum: 19:56

Sure. Just recently I can tell you a great story. I went through a process with a client. I have something called the change agent challenge. It's like a six day process, right? Take people through creating a template for something they want to. They're already typically CEOs who have some sort of business and they want to take it to the next level, and what are they here to change in the world, right? So I have this process with them. And this one CEO, very, very successful guy. Super successful. But he realized through that process that he hasn't seen his kids often. And when he gets his end of his life, where does he want to be? He does, he wanna make a billion dollars, or maybe only a hundred million, but have a relationship with his family. So he actually pulled back. And the first thing he did after three or four sessions is, and his son was another close by, but in another country with his mom. And he went to visit. Now he's there all the time. He's living half the time. And seeing his son a lot. So that's the kind of chain when people open up, I see they start focusing on what's important. And for a lot of entrepreneurs, it's refocusing on maybe their health, their family cause you can have all the cars and all the houses. It's ultimately just gonna be empty houses. And sometimes if the opposite happens, people use their children and their family is an excuse not to be up late at night and working hard. They make excuses about not following their path because they have children. I have three kids, I get it. My daughter's calling me right now. I'm ignoring her. I might bring her off. She's calling me about something. I have three kids. I have a wife. I have all these responsibilities. I have to be up sometimes late into the night working on my projects. That's being authentic to my path. And so I see both. So again it's a balance.

Tom Jackobs: 21:38

Yeah.

Andrew Grinbaum: 21:39

When people reconnect, they really see what's important, and I'm there to hopefully hold them accountable, as best as I can.

Tom Jackobs: 21:45

Okay, cool. And once they've kinda reconnected to their inner voice and they've kinda gone all through, through your system and your process, what type of results have they gotten because they've opened up their heart, they've become more authentic to others?

Andrew Grinbaum: 22:01

Yeah, I mean, I can tell you the founders who stick to it. I have a lot of clients, they've doubled their revenue three years in a row.

Tom Jackobs: 22:09

Wow.

Andrew Grinbaum: 22:10

Like some really incredible, yeah, 30, 40% growth is normal, right?'cause you're being authentic and this is the key. So when you're authentic, you're speaking from your heart. What happens in a, let's say, a sales conversation, and you know this very well, you're a master salesperson. I get all your emails just amazing. But when you speak from the heart, you end up speaking to another person's heart. We can really be authentic, and those are the best salespeople Who can really connect with other people. It seems like they're not even selling. They're selling things,

Tom Jackobs: 22:40

Right.

Andrew Grinbaum: 22:41

So, they go from trying to sell to having authentic conversations with their clients, with their employees. Everybody stays longer. Everybody does better. Their teams get inspired because now they have a mission and they're speaking authentically. So that's like the big change. And also I see that a lot of people who start businesses, they have a passion to do something, right? So they create a business to explore their passion, and then eight years later, they're not only doing the passion, but they're the sales manager, they're the bookkeeper, they're the operations manager, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. One guy earlier this year, I asked for a job description. There were like at least nine jobs he was doing in his company. I'm like, no wonder you don't sleep. I don't know how he lived. And some of these people are very successful, but they don't realize they've created this kind of prison. So what I do, and that's the practical part of it's listen, instead of maybe making$600,000 next year, maybe make 400,000, but use that 200 to hire two operations directors, right? Hire a sales manager, hire a lot of them don't have exec people making a million dollars a year. They don't have a outsource executive assistant or it's crazy. I'm like, you working 80 hours a week? What's wrong with you? I ask them, what is your time worth? Let's say have a$5 million company, you're in a million dollar company times 2,000 hours. Let's say I do a numbers with it, you're valued at$500 an hour because you're you are the king or the queen of this business. That's why CEOs get paid so much. So if it's a million dollar business, if you work 2000 hours, how much is that? That's$500 an hour. And they go, oh my God. Never thought about it like that. So I tell'em, anything under that$500 somebody else needs to do. Okay. There's no doubt somebody else needs to do that work. And so we go through the practical part of it too, right? Be the CEO, don't be the bookkeeper, don't be the social media poster. It's crazy, right? I'm sure you see this too, a lot. Clients do everything.

Tom Jackobs: 24:44

Personally.

Andrew Grinbaum: 24:46

Okay? Clients do too much. We have to talk then, but if you wanna build a$5 million business which is$2,500 an hour, that's, I have to start thinking.

Tom Jackobs: 24:55

Yeah.

Andrew Grinbaum: 24:56

I'm, if a$5 million business, my hourly is$2,500 an hour over 2026, let's say it's gonna gonna appear some. In this year in 2026, am I going to do things that are under that level? Sometimes you have to, yes, there's an emergency,

Tom Jackobs: 25:12

Yeah.

Andrew Grinbaum: 25:12

but you could probably hire people for today. 8, 10, 15,$20 an hour. Really qualified people with college degrees to do other countries. Columbia, the Philippines, different places.

Tom Jackobs: 25:25

Yeah.

Andrew Grinbaum: 25:25

Where that's a really great living and they can do a lot of this stuff for you. So if you want to get that 5 million or I have guys going towards a hundred million, I don't even know what the hourly is, 10,000 an hour, whatever that is. You can't do your bookkeeping.

Tom Jackobs: 25:40

No.

Andrew Grinbaum: 25:40

still are, so it's a practical thing to help them think, start thinking like a CEO that they're meant to be, or a CEO of their life, of their business. And get people to help you. I'll say just the final thing. There's no such thing. It's a myth. I was talking about that today with somebody. There's no such thing as the self-made man or woman. It doesn't exist. We all need help, whether it's bringing on partners who can help us grow our business, we can share the wealth with, or we hire people or we ask for help. Maybe get a coach, something. This whole idea of I'm gonna do it myself and I'm a self-made millionaire. It's a myth. It's a myth. It doesn't exist. So that's the kind of things we work through, right? The spiritual part, also the practical part. Know your value.

Tom Jackobs: 26:28

I love that. I love that so much. And I was laughing because literally yesterday I hired an account, a bookkeeper.

Andrew Grinbaum: 26:35

Oh, congratulations.

Tom Jackobs: 26:36

I don't need to be doing, but I like to do sometimes I believe it or not, I'm, I don't know how I got away with this, but I actually enjoy accounting work, which is weird because I'm not a really big numbers person.

Andrew Grinbaum: 26:47

It's fun, right? Yeah. You could see it.

Tom Jackobs: 26:49

Yeah, it's very practical, but I don't need to be like reconciling my QuickBooks to my bank

Andrew Grinbaum: 26:55

Correct. Yeah. A lot of times people, you have to, I use the term divorce. You have to literally divorce yourself from a lot of the jobs you like doing. If you want to grow. Married to, you love it, right? The numbers, look at that QuickBooks, looking at bank accounts, P and Ls, that's fun.

Tom Jackobs: 27:09

Yeah.

Andrew Grinbaum: 27:10

Yeah, but you know what?

Tom Jackobs: 27:11

Yeah.

Andrew Grinbaum: 27:12

If you wanna make$10 million or$50 million, maybe you have once a month meeting with your bookkeeper.

Tom Jackobs: 27:17

Yeah, exactly,

Andrew Grinbaum: 27:18

he or she reconciles everything, and it's a discipline for sure, to have a financial meeting once a month.

Tom Jackobs: 27:24

Maybe more than that and just getting by and now, I can have her do. Like all the reconciliations. Take up that five hours. Those five hours. Now I get back to grow the business

Andrew Grinbaum: 27:36

Correct.

Tom Jackobs: 27:36

Five hours that for the last, what, five years, 10 years, 15 years that I've been investing in QuickBooks.

Andrew Grinbaum: 27:43

Yeah. How much can you sell? That's 250 hours a year. You could have been selling

Tom Jackobs: 27:48

another a hundred.

Andrew Grinbaum: 27:49

business.

Tom Jackobs: 27:49

Yeah. And if you do a 50% close rate, that's a, another 125 clients.

Andrew Grinbaum: 27:53

Exactly. Which is crazy. So that's, I have to look at it. Yes. You have to divorce yourself and there's probably other things you do as well and that you need to just divorce yourself from, even though it's fun

Tom Jackobs: 28:03

Yeah.

Andrew Grinbaum: 28:03

and just focus on closing, which I know you're really good at. That's it. If you don't, if you're not passionate about that, then try another business.

Tom Jackobs: 28:11

Exactly..

Andrew Grinbaum: 28:12

Yeah.

Tom Jackobs: 28:12

This has been just fascinating and one of the first sets one of the first interviews that we've had that we've combined a spiritual practice with business practice. And I think that's just, it's really brilliant to help people in all different walks of life.

Andrew Grinbaum: 28:27

Thanks.

Tom Jackobs: 28:27

If just different tools available to them to be successful.

Andrew Grinbaum: 28:30

Thank you. I appreciate that.

Tom Jackobs: 28:32

How can people learn more about what you're doing and potentially work with you?

Andrew Grinbaum: 28:36

Yeah, so I have a few free kind of playbooks and webinars that I have a host on my site. One of'em if they, people wanna learn about the inner part of this work.

Tom Jackobs: 28:47

Yeah.

Andrew Grinbaum: 28:47

I've something called the inner CEO. Which is a bunch of exercises. It's a playbook. It's pretty long, it's 40, 50 pages long. So it's not just like a white paper, it's not fluff. I take a lot of these ideas that I work with clients, and I think you'll probably provide a link at the bottom of this podcast. They can click on and just download the inner CEO. It is going behind a paywall very soon. If you're listening to this podcast and it's behind a paywall already. Contact me through the website and I'll send you a code. Because we are working. I gave it away for free to test it in the marketplace. There's been several hundred downloads and at this point I'm gonna put it behind a paywall,

Tom Jackobs: 29:22

Yeah.

Andrew Grinbaum: 29:22

But I will send a code because I know it's happening now. They're putting it behind a paywall, but it's still available for the foreseeable future, but it will go behind a paywall. But the inner CEO is a great place to start.

Tom Jackobs: 29:34

Nice.

Andrew Grinbaum: 29:34

that'll give you a whole playbook on how to bring mindfulness and meditation and this kind of stuff into business building.

Tom Jackobs: 29:41

And a nice practical approach to doing it. I love that.

Andrew Grinbaum: 29:44

Absolutely. Step by step. I'm very practical.

Tom Jackobs: 29:46

Well, Thanks for putting that up there for the audience. I'm sure they will really appreciate that.

Andrew Grinbaum: 29:50

Absolutely.

Tom Jackobs: 29:51

Awesome. Andrew, thanks again for spending your time with us today and just sharing your philosophy and your approach to building businesses with heart. I really appreciate you taking the time.

Andrew Grinbaum: 30:01

Oh, it's been great. I'll do it again. This is a great conversation. Thanks so much, Tom.

Tom Jackobs: 30:05

Awesome. Thank you and thank you listeners for tuning in today. We really do appreciate it. Make sure you're checking out everything that Andrew's doing, and we're gonna connect all of that down into the show notes so it makes it very easy. Just click on that link and get that playbook and start connecting better to your heart and with your purpose and be a better CEO. And while you're down there clicking away, if you could do me a favor and share the show with a friend or a family member who could use some of the advice that we shared today. Until next time, lead with your heart.

Speaker 2: 30:37

You've been listening to The Heart-Led Business Show, hosted by Tom Jackobs. Join us next time for another inspiring journey into the heart of business.