Speaker: 0:01

Welcome to The Heart-Led Business Show, where compassion meets commerce and leaders lead with love. Join your host, Tom Jackobs, as he delves into the insightful conversations with visionary business leaders who defy the status quo, putting humanity first and profit second. From heartfelt strategies to inspiring stories, this podcast is your compass in the world of conscious capitalism. So buckle up and let your heart guide your business journey.

Tom Jackobs: 0:36

Welcome to The Heart-Led Business Show where passion meets purpose. And today we have the incredible Curtis McCullom in the virtual studio today, and he's a master of unlocking potential, helping leaders leap over lifelong hurdles like a pogo stick to personal freedom. we'll dive into Curtis' experience at the helm of his heart-led adventure. So ready your hearts and your minds because transformation awaits. Curtis, welcome to the show.

Curtis McCullom: 1:06

Oh, thank you for having me today, man. That means it's a pleasure to be on your show.

Tom Jackobs: 1:09

I am really excited to have this conversation, especially about how you're working with leaders, for lifelong issues that are affecting them today and how you're helping them overcome those and see great success from it. So I'm really excited to, more personally, I think, or felt selfishly to, to talk to you about that. I'm sure audience is gonna love the conversation.

Curtis McCullom: 1:34

There you go. You know, I mean, you know, I'm sometimes I'm selfish like that myself. I'm like, you know what guys on my show is like, I'm like, Hey, this is for me. If you decide to listen in, you can get a couple of tips too. But today is for Curtis, you know?

Tom Jackobs: 1:49

Yes, right. And for the audience here too, but could you answer, the first question I always have is, what's your definition of a heart-led business?

Curtis McCullom: 2:00

Well, I, I think it is linked into who I am, number one, being an authentic being.

Tom Jackobs: 2:07

Hmm.

Curtis McCullom: 2:08

Um, and when I look back and I was kind of thinking about this particular show, I went back and looked at my core values and I think everyone should stop and have someone elicit their core values. Their core values is their deepest level of programming. It kind of drives our behavior, who we are and who are be who, how we actually show up or what we're doing or not doing. And my number one value is love.

Tom Jackobs: 2:35

Hmm.

Curtis McCullom: 2:36

When I've said that, guys, I want you to understand that's a label for me. So the next question you need to ask me is that, what does that mean to me? And that's what I ask my clients and love means to me, Tom, is this is the transference of energy that connects to the heart. Meaning like this connection that man are having right now is like a spiritual connection, which I walk in their shoes so that I could have a better perspective on actually how to help and support them. So when I think about the definition of a heart-led business is number one, love, and number two, my number two value is helping others. Meaning that I want to empower people to achieve their fullest potential. Uh, so, so when you talk about a heart-led business, you're talking about the definition of a heart-led business. I think it starts with number one being the, the authentic being that God created you to be. People are looking for authenticity and then moving towards, for me is love and helping others.

Tom Jackobs: 3:39

Do you find, and I love that definition too, by the way, but do you find that people struggle with the authenticity piece, especially in business?

Curtis McCullom: 3:48

Absolutely, absolutely. The challenge that we have today is, as you well know, I, I mean, I'm from Mississippi, so I'm a country boy, and, and so some of the colloquialisms that, that I used, you know, like everybody in their mama is a coach these days, right?

Tom Jackobs: 4:06

Love it.

Curtis McCullom: 4:08

So, so, so, so, yeah, so it's like, so one of the challenges that we have of being an authentic coach is trying to compete or try to try to go through the noise that is out there. You know, everybody's doing something and shaking something or doing something. So sometimes what we need to stop and says, okay, look. I'm looking for people who are looking for me. So being me being my authentic self is more than enough. And I think that would kind of cut through some of the other noise because you're not looking for everybody. You're look looking for those people who are looking for you, who are attracted to your authentic being.

Tom Jackobs: 4:46

Yeah. Why is it do you think that people find it so hard to be authentic, especially in the business world?

Curtis McCullom: 4:56

Uh, a part of it is, part of what I do as a coach is I help individuals eliminate the blind spots that they've been kind of carrying around since childhood or, you know, in earlier part of their life. So part of the challenge is that their, their beliefs and their values are out of alignment, meaning that something that they learned. Early on that's now preventing them from being that authentic being. And so what we try to do, what I do as a coach is to actually help them figure out what is that now showing up in your life that's preventing you from being authentic. Um, and I know for me personally, it was, it was some, uh, childhood trauma, uh, some things that, you know, even though my parents meant well, my father meant well. But it did a little damage that I have to go and clean up in order for me to now show up to who I am today.

Tom Jackobs: 5:53

Uh, Yeah, I can imagine that a lot of times people are bringing shame or some other emotions into it. And they're like, well, I can't share that part of me because I might be judged or

Curtis McCullom: 6:06

Right.

Tom Jackobs: 6:07

something like that. And what I've found though is when you can tell somebody that's holding back somebody that's not like their true self with you all the time, and there's always that feeling. Do you find that as well?

Curtis McCullom: 6:20

Yeah, and it is a feeling, you know, I, I mean, being a coach and a sales professional like yourself, is that I've been try to become extremely sensory conscious and what I mean by that guys is I look at the total being not what they're singing, not just what the words that they're saying, but their body movements and, and how they're actually carrying themselves because I've learned many years ago, like 93% of all our communication is nonverbal. So even though you might be saying one thing, your body, your movements, your mind might be actually communicating something totally different. So yeah, I, I'm looking for those things and I think it's very difficult for people to kind of really grasp that and, and kind of really take a look at that.

Tom Jackobs: 7:03

Yeah. I'm really glad that you brought that up too, because that's, that's actually part of what I train people on, is to making sure that their tonality matches the intention

Curtis McCullom: 7:13

Yes.

Tom Jackobs: 7:13

of what they're trying to say. Not the words, but the intention behind the words.

Curtis McCullom: 7:18

Absolutely.

Tom Jackobs: 7:18

I could say to you like, oh, it's really exciting that you're here, Curtis. So.

Curtis McCullom: 7:25

no energy man. No passion.

Tom Jackobs: 7:29

Don't match tonality. Right. But if you're like, oh, I'm super excited that you're here. This is gonna be awesome. It's a complete different, yeah. I can see that with, with the authentic piece as well. So tell us about the business side of running a heart-led business and how that started for you.

Curtis McCullom: 7:49

Well, it's interesting. My journey actually started about over probably 40 years ago. I wanted to become a motivational speaker, so I started, studied all the greats from Jim Rome to Tony Robbins, to Tom Hopkins, to Zig Ziglar, all the greats way back when some of those guys probably don't even know some of those guys, but that's why I started and I started in sales and so I wanted to be that. And so I went into sales and within one year I became the number one salesperson in my company. Didn't know anything about the product. I was in financial services, and I became number one. And so that I can say not only can I'm teaching it, but I'm doing it. I mean, I'm actually doing the work. I can show you how to do it, not just talk about it. But then once again, that a blind spot. You know, I, I mean, I call it the, uh, the, the wilderness that sometimes we follow us find ourselves in is that we don't sometimes can't get outta our own way. Even though I've been extremely successful in sales, number one in sales, I've been in top 10 to 15% basically all of my life in sales. You know, doing over a million dollars in revenue for companies year after year. But still, something kept stopping me from actually being my authentic self and, and I have to do some work around that. I mean, it's so important because of the fact that it kept showing up. Um, and even lately, you know, in business it, it was showing up. I'm getting all these transformations for individuals and I'm looking at myself and I'm like, yeah, I'm doing well and I can do better. So what is it that's preventing me now? From actually being my authentic being, so like most of you may needs to do, you hired, I hired a coach.

Tom Jackobs: 9:41

Yeah.

Curtis McCullom: 9:42

I hired a coach to kind of give me a different perspective. It's like as a coach or think about a heart surgeon. A heart surgeon wouldn't dare try to perform heart surgery on himself. Okay. Okay. Like let first, Hey Tom, lemme give myself some anesthesia. Holy, before I go to sleep, I need to open my, it'll be a mess. And so hiring coaches is so important. So because they can see what you can see. I think one of my, one of my, uh, podcasters said, you know, you know it's hard to read the label when you're inside the jar. And, and that's so true. And I'm like, wow. Boom. I, I told, I told em I was to look, I'm gonna use that after a while. I'm gonna stop giving you credit for it. I'm just gonna use it. But, um, but the whole idea is that we need a different perspective and I needed a different perspective for myself because I was, I was showing up, I was doing great things. People see me on, you know, YouTube and all these things, like, wow, he has to have it all together. And I do for the most part, and I'm human. Uh, and, and I choose, suffer some from some of those things. I think it's so important for people to understand that.

Tom Jackobs: 10:56

Yeah. Yeah. And I always feel it's very hypocritical be a coach and not have a coach at some point, or to always have it because it is like, well, I don't believe in coaching and you know,

Curtis McCullom: 11:13

It doesn't make

Tom Jackobs: 11:15

any sense.

Curtis McCullom: 11:15

What you think about it? What, what are you actually communicating? You know, when, when, when, when I was in, when I was in sales, I was a financial professional. I was in life insurance. I was a certified financial planner and you know, uh, A CLU and all of those other initiatives that goes along with financial services, it would be very hypocritical of me to show up to tell a person that they need life insurance and I don't own life insurance.

Tom Jackobs: 11:39

Yeah. Yeah,

Curtis McCullom: 11:40

100 percent. Yeah. Do you have it? No. No. And that's part of, I think in sales and as a business and heartfelt business, is that guys, we have to open ourselves up so that we can, or empty ourselves so that we can actually attract people who are attracted to us and be that person we want to become. And it's so important that you do work on yourself to e empty that stuff out. And it's interesting to me, Thomas, this, some of the people that are attracted to me have, are coming to me for some of the same things that I've gone through. That means now I have a story because of I've emptied myself out now that I can actually receive more and, uh, to kind of help more individuals.

Tom Jackobs: 12:26

Oh yeah, that totally makes sense too. Like that energy is attracting others that, uh, that can use the help that you've already gone through.

Curtis McCullom: 12:34

Yes.

Tom Jackobs: 12:35

It totally makes sense. Yeah. I love that. Talk to me about how you made that transition from working for other people to now having your own coaching business and what that transition was like for you.

Curtis McCullom: 12:47

Um, well about six years ago, um, I was still in financial services. And uh, and I was in management now and coaching individuals on teams, and I came to a point where I just wasn't having fun. And it's like, you know, I was doing it. I was doing it because I was really good at it. I've been doing it basically I'm like 35, almost 40 years. So I could do it in my sleep. I can coach individuals in my sleep. I can help people in sales and help people get into financial products like easy without a lot of effort. But I didn't have a lot of joy. And so about six years ago, we were financially able to say, Hey, uh, you know, I don't wanna do this anymore. And my wife says, won't you do what you always wanted to do once you start your coaching business? And that's where the journey started. But it wasn't easy. Oh my God. It wasn't easy because even though you don't even know what you don't know. You know, Tom, I started a few businesses and stuff, but this is probably one of one that has been pretty difficult in a way, and I mean you, part of that story is that it's, you know, part of coaching number one, I started as an executive coach.

Tom Jackobs: 14:04

Mm-hmm.

Curtis McCullom: 14:05

And I'm like, wow. This is not what I thought coaching was. And it's like, no, no, no, no, no. So that's when I went, uh, back and, and got a certification because what I used to become successful as a salesperson was neurolinguistic programming, which is the, the technology that Tony Robinson uses. And also, uh, hypnotherapy. That's what I used when I, when I became number one. In less than one year. So I went and got a certification as a master practitioner in neuro linguistic programming. I also got a certification as a clinical hypnotherapist so that I can utilize these modalities in my coaching practice. So when I, when a person comes to me, we're not talking about surface level things. We're actually dealing with the subconscious, the part of our being, the 95% that controls all our behavior, because if we can control that, then we can control our goals, we can reach our objectives, we can do those types of things. So that's how I started my coaching practice. But like I said before, um, and then in the midst of that, soon as we got started, we lost our oldest son. Um. And so we have to go through that, uh, and, and through the grieving process and so I help individuals because of my coaching has helped individuals move through that process of feeling the feelings that they need to fill in. I think I just did a video not too long ago is it's okay not to be okay. Then I also said. It's okay not to be okay, but it's not okay to say you're, pretend that you're okay and you're not. Allow yourself to feel those feelings of sadness and allow yourself, if you need to scream, scream if you need to, uh, just be, be whatever you need to do, allow this emotion to kind of pass through you. Allow it to do so. So yeah, that was part of my journey.

Tom Jackobs: 15:52

Yeah. Wow. That I couldn't even imagine. Yeah. Um, when you said that starting this coaching business was much, much harder or different from the other businesses, what do you mean by that?

Curtis McCullom: 16:08

Well, like I said, I didn't know what I didn't know,

Tom Jackobs: 16:11

Mm-hmm.

Curtis McCullom: 16:12

And a lot of people"should" on you. SHOU not they"should" on you. What you should be doing. You should be doing this. You should be doing this, you should be doing on YouTube, you should be doing this. You should, should, should, should, should, should, should. And you don't need to. No, basically, and so and so, I invested a lot of money. And things that people told me, what I should be doing, you know, oh, this is what you do to be successful. Oh no, what this, what to do to be, be successful. No, you need this. You should be shouldn't. I'm like, oh my God. Stop it. Stop. You know, after thousands and thousands of dollars later it's like, it is all good though. It was all good in the sense that. And that was part that, what came out of it was my coaching framework actually came from my experiences of failure, uh, and setbacks and heartbreaks is that is what I call the LGET Mindset coaching framework, which is learning, growing, expanding, and transforming. Meaning that whatever you're going through, wherever you are in your journey, you're going through it for per purpose.

Tom Jackobs: 17:27

Yeah.

Curtis McCullom: 17:27

And the purpose is so that you can learn something, therefore, you grow, you expand, and you transform. But guess what, guys? The process starts all over again and there's never a point in your life where you should be stagnant. You should always be learning. You should be always be growing, you should always be transforming.

Tom Jackobs: 17:47

Yeah. Yeah. Why do people feel like that's a very difficult thing to do? Or why? Why are people feeling stuck then?

Curtis McCullom: 17:58

Well, I think going, going back to what we talked about before, the reason people are stuck is because of the fact that they are carrying some belief, some value, some thoughts, some feeling that they have not truly released that energy. And so part of what I try to explain to people, and they can do this on their own, meaning number one, acknowledge it. I mean, one of the hardest, most difficult things that an individual can do is acknowledge the fact that I'm feeling sad or I'm feeling stuck, or I'm feeling angry, or I'm, I'm feeling fearful, just, but look what I'm saying. I'm not saying that I am sad. I am fearful. I said, I am feeling the feelings or the emotions. I'm separating the feelings and the emotions from the individual.

Tom Jackobs: 18:51

Yeah.

Curtis McCullom: 18:52

So number one is that we can separate that and acknowledge it and be okay with it.

Tom Jackobs: 18:59

Yeah.

Curtis McCullom: 18:59

It's like that's a natural emotion.'cause an emotion is an, I mean, a feeling is an emotion that wants to communicate with us and leave. So when you allow it to communicate with us, then what I want them to do is this. Ask the right questions.

Tom Jackobs: 19:17

Yeah.

Curtis McCullom: 19:18

This question do I hate to say, do not, but do not because you know, and in this subconscious mind doesn't have a knot. But do not ask yourself why questions. Why questions will take you to a part of your subconscious mind that you'll be like, what the heck? How did I get down here? Because it's gonna tell you all the reasons why you're not doing what you're doing.

Tom Jackobs: 19:43

Oh yeah. You don't need it, we have enough people in our lives telling us that, so.

Curtis McCullom: 19:49

So, yeah, so, so ask yourself, what questions, what can I do?

Tom Jackobs: 19:53

Oh yeah.

Curtis McCullom: 19:54

How can I now move forward? What is it that I need to learn from this? So these what questions and how questions, what it does now this, now that, that, that part of your body and your part of your being goes out into the universe and find reasons and things that can attract to you and tell you and give you some inspired actions that you can take to continue to move forward. That's the key to it. It's like, ask yourself, what is it I need to learn? What is it I need to be doing? What is it that I, what can I get from this? How can I learn from this? How can I grow from this? When you start asking yourself those questions and then listening to your higher self, not only listening, then take an inspired action. That's when things actually start to happen.

Tom Jackobs: 20:46

Yeah. Oh, absolutely. And I know that's happened for me personally as well. So when, when you were in the early stages of your business and things were hard, what kept you motivated to keep going with your heart-led business and stay in course and, and helping people?

Curtis McCullom: 21:05

I think the thing that an individual has to have in business period is a strong enough why.

Tom Jackobs: 21:11

Yeah.

Curtis McCullom: 21:12

Why you're doing what you're doing and, and it can't be just about money.

Tom Jackobs: 21:20

Well, that that's a profit led business then at that point.

Curtis McCullom: 21:23

Yeah. Well, basically money is important. Trust me. We need to make a profit and like I'm, I'm looking at my values. So, um, number of my number four value is making money.

Tom Jackobs: 21:35

Yeah.

Curtis McCullom: 21:35

Because of the fact that, but my making money is, this is what my making money is the exchange of energy that sustains impactful work growth, benevolent in lifestyle. Meaning like, so that's important too, is that when you're list, when you're listed, your values, your values going to dictate what's actually happening in your life. When I'm working with individuals, Tom, it's interesting you believe it or not, money. Can be number eight, nine or 10 on their values because of their beliefs that money is bad or money done grown trees or money is the root of all evil and all of these things that we want, beliefs that we've picked up along the way. Right? And immediately the first question I ask you ask them is, are you making money? No. Didn't even have to tell me that when I elicit to their values and money is so low that that, that they don't, they won't make money even if they wanted it to. It is like they want to or they want to, but they don't know what's keeping what's, what's stopping them. So part of that, I don't know what, how we got there, but

Tom Jackobs: 22:49

Well, they have like 600 things before the money.

Curtis McCullom: 22:53

Yeah.

Tom Jackobs: 22:54

And that's really the purpose of the, the show here is to make it okay for heart-led business owners to make a money and, and feel good about it. Because the more that you make, the more you can give, the more you can do. And it's not that money buys you happiness, it just makes life a lot easier. That's, that's currency, right? Money is currency. It's, it's what moves. Making it like, how can you do what you love to do, how can you help other people? And you know, it just keeps going around in that circle.

Curtis McCullom: 23:26

Well, well, you know, I, I think someone says, you know, when you have money, at least you can show up to your problems in style.

Tom Jackobs: 23:32

That's right. That was in Wolf of Wall Street, I think.

Curtis McCullom: 23:36

That's what I was telling you earlier, Tom, is that, is that when we elicit our values, look at, look at my first four values. I want to read'em to them. Number one is love. I told you it's transference of energy that connects to heart. Number two is helping others, empowering people to achieve their fullish potential. Number three is passion. That driving force, that energizes purpose and fulfillment. Number four, value is making money.

Tom Jackobs: 24:01

Wow.

Curtis McCullom: 24:01

But when a person says money, they have to ask them, what does that mean to them? That's when they're finding the baggage. Baggage is their language, um, how they describe money. They'll say something like this, oh, uh, money means to man I wanna make sure I pay all of my bills. Listen to the language. Or it's hard or money is whatever that, what it means to them. So my language for making money, which is important guys, is my language, when you said is making money, is exchange of energy. What does that mean? Is that if I am giving energy out, energy needs to come back to me in the form of money. By this money it, what it, what does it do? It, it sustains impactful work, meaning that I can continue to get up to do what I do. Number two, it's growth. Number three, benevolence. I love to give. It's hard to give if you don't have anything to give.

Tom Jackobs: 25:06

That's right.

Curtis McCullom: 25:08

And number four. And another one is lifestyle. My, my wife, she likes, she likes nice trips. I like nice trips.

Tom Jackobs: 25:17

I like nice trips either.

Curtis McCullom: 25:19

And so, but if I don't make money, I can't take'em.

Tom Jackobs: 25:22

Right.

Curtis McCullom: 25:22

You know? And, and one of the things for my wife is great experiences, man. This life is about having some great experiences. So, so when you change your meaning of making money. Then your subconscious mind says, oh, okay, now I can attract it because of the fact that I'm not stopping it because of my old beliefs and my old values of what I thought money was. And sometimes we need to stop and ask ourselves, what does money mean to me? And let yourself come up with the ideas. Don't try to, you know, I tell my clients when we're going through this values session is don't tell me what you think I want to hear. Tell yourself exactly what you're feeling. Because I can't help you if you tell me that the, you know, you make it flowery and like, oh my God, I got it all together. No, no, no, no, no, no. Just be honest with yourself. Acknowledge with yourself. Money means dread, or money means working hard. Listen to that language and watch the language that actually comes from, from what money making money means to you.

Tom Jackobs: 26:33

Yeah, I was at a, a conference last year where, uh, the facilitator had us do a conver, have a conversation money.

Curtis McCullom: 26:43

Yes.

Tom Jackobs: 26:44

To elicit and I thought that was the most brilliant exercise to do, and, and things came up with and I was like, oh, okay, I see where, see where my mindset is around money. And I've been working to change that and it's worked out well too, believe it or not. Yeah. So yeah, it's, it's amazing. Just, and, and that was one of the reasons I started the podcast as well, is that, I wanted to feel and be around a community of other people that were like, Hey, we wanna be heart-led, but we also wanna make money.

Curtis McCullom: 27:16

Right.

Tom Jackobs: 27:17

And, and you can have both. And I've met really, really wonderful people that, you know, are, are making good amount of money that are still heart-led. And

Curtis McCullom: 27:26

Oh,

Tom Jackobs: 27:26

I think that we need that message out there.

Curtis McCullom: 27:29

But it's not, it's not one or the other.

Tom Jackobs: 27:31

Right.

Curtis McCullom: 27:32

It is not, it's basically, it's like, it's like simultaneously, it's working together because of the fact that you are a heart-led business. That means that you're going to, you're gonna give your clients value.

Tom Jackobs: 27:44

Mm-hmm.

Curtis McCullom: 27:44

Because of the fact that, you know, I was thinking about when I was preparing for your show is like I, I thought about a passage of scripture where Jesus says, love your neighbors as yourself. Meaning like you have to love yourself, to love your neighbors. You have be able to give so that you can give back. And another passage he talks about, he says, give and it shall be given unto you.

Tom Jackobs: 28:03

Yeah.

Curtis McCullom: 28:03

Press down, shaken together, run it over. Whatever you meet out should be, come back to you. Think about this guys. The more you give out value. The more can come back to you in a form of energy, which is money, which is what kind of drives this world, and basically is a part of the principles that a Christian led or heart-led or Christian principles is all about that.

Tom Jackobs: 28:31

Yeah. And even, uh, Zig Ziglar had that, uh, quote as well that the, um, which I'm gonna butcher, but the more that you do for other people, the more will comeback to you.

Curtis McCullom: 28:40

Absolutely. It says you can get everything you want in life. If you help enough people get what they want in life, and that's what it's all about. It's like you helping other people get what they want. Then guess what, in exchange for that and exchange of energy and what happens a lot of times the energy is cut. It severed because of the fact that you are giving out so much. You're not getting it back, and you are like, you'll be, you have this feeling deep inside of like, what is it I'm doing? Why am I doing what I'm doing? I'm not totally fulfilled. It's because of the fact that you've cut the energy. You didn't allow that client to give you back value that you deserve to have, so that it kind of shuts it off. It's like you got to have this movement. Energy is transference of energy. You know, the, the law of conservation is never lost or destroyed. It's just transferred from one thing to the next.

Tom Jackobs: 29:32

Yep. Yeah, that's, this has just been a, a fascinating conversation, Curtis, and I'm so glad that you've been on the show, but like, we're close to time now, um, tell us how, how can people learn more about your, your business and potentially work with you?

Curtis McCullom: 29:50

Um, probably two places that you can always find me on this. Number one is LinkedIn, um, Curtis McCullom on LinkedIn or my company name, Bespoke Retentional Coaching. Either one of those. And another place where you can get a lot of great content from me is on YouTube@curtisMcCullom, you'll find me there where we have a lot of great content that I produce content weekly. Uh, also my podcast is on YouTube. Also, you can listen to others, uh, CEOs and entrepreneurs kind of figure out how now to lead their lives to be better. So those two places are probably the easiest places to actually find me is YouTube@curtisMcCullom and also on LinkedIn@curtisMcCullom.

Tom Jackobs: 30:33

Okay. Very cool. I encourage everybody to check that out we'll, we'll put that into the show notes as well. So Curtis, again, thank you so much for spending your time with us and sharing your wisdom, being authentic, being joyful, being full of love as well. I really appreciate your energy and your time as well. Thank you.

Curtis McCullom: 30:52

You are welcome. It was my pleasure to.

Tom Jackobs: 30:54

Awesome. And thank you listeners and those watching on YouTube as well. We really do appreciate it and like I said before, make sure you're checking out what Curtis is doing down in the show notes. We're gonna put all the links to, uh, his assets down there so you can check out the YouTube channel and the podcast and all that good stuff. And also, while you're down there, if you want to share the show with a friend or family member that could use that advice that we shared today, I would appreciate that it just spreads the word about more heart-led businesses out there and help people realize that you can have money and profit and still be a heart-led business. Until next time, lead with your heart.

Speaker 2: 31:33

You've been listening to The Heart-Led Business Show, hosted by Tom Jackobs. Join us next time for another inspiring journey into the heart of business.