Speaker: 0:01

Welcome to The Heart-Led Business Show, where compassion meets commerce and leaders lead with love. Join your host, Tom Jackobs, as he delves into the insightful conversations with visionary business leaders who defy the status quo, putting humanity first and profit second. From heartfelt strategies to inspiring stories, this podcast is your compass in the world of conscious capitalism. So buckle up and let your heart guide your business journey.

Tom Jackobs: 0:36

Today we have the pleasure of meeting the powerhouse that is Esther Avant with 20 years in the Health Hustle, Esther has gone beyond the scales proving that balance beats burnout. As the co-owner of Made By Me Coaching and author of the Bestselling Gem to Your Health, she shares her journey of heart-led health, and how she juggles it all with joy and generosity. So let's dive into the art of thriving, not just surviving in the world of wellness. Esther, welcome to the show.

Esther Avant: 1:08

Thank you so much for having me.

Tom Jackobs: 1:10

I am really excited to kind dive into this'cause I'm all about coaching so I'm really excited to kinda dive into that with you. But of course the first question I always like to ask is, what's your definition of a heart-led business?

Esther Avant: 1:27

I think that a heart-led business is one where you trust yourself to make decisions based on the message that you wanna share, the outcome that you wanna have, and what's gonna work for you and the lifestyle that you want to be leading, rather than basing those decisions off of what someone else is telling you to do, or revenue or just something that doesn't necessarily feel aligned, trusting yourself to know. I'm in charge here and I get to call the shots even if it feels unconventional or other people don't understand my choices. It's not about them. I'm leading with my heart and I know that I have a mission to share. I know I have people I wanna impact, and I'm gonna do that in a way that works for me and my family.

Tom Jackobs: 2:12

Wow. I I really, that is, that is one of the most unique, uh, definitions that I've heard so far, and I love that. And, and it's in a good way. It's not like, whoa, that's weird. With the decisions that you make about your business. I love that piece because, you know, every time we fly, we're told, take care of yourself before putting the oxygen mask of others, because you can't help others if you're not there. And so I, I love that it puts us in the control as well. That's a really great definition. Thank you for sharing that. That's great. Thank you. Yeah. So tell us a little bit about your heart-led business and what got you into it.

Esther Avant: 2:51

Yeah, I've been coaching now for, I've been in the industry for almost 20 years, owning my own business for about 10 and, it has certainly evolved over the years. The reason that I started really, I guess I started as a personal trainer. So even though you're often working for a gym, you still run your own business within. that umbrella, you are likely sourcing your own clients from conversations on the fitness floor and things like that. So my introduction was in, you know, technically having a job but not making any money unless I built my business. You know, within that. And then a few years in, I. Met my now husband who is in the military, and I knew that if we were gonna be together, that was gonna mean moving every few years. And as a trainer, you know, it takes time to. get hired, build up that clientele, actually get a good business going. And I knew that if we're moving every few years, I was gonna put in all of that work over and over again and really never get to reap the benefits of it because then we'd move.

Tom Jackobs: 3:57

Right.

Esther Avant: 3:57

that was the really early days. That was the of the early 2010s. And that was when online coaching and training really started to become a thing. So I saw these other trainers. Having online businesses and, and the early, the, the pioneers were making a lot of money, and I was thinking I could do that. You know, I'm educated, I'm qualified, I have a good work ethic. They don't have anything that, I don't, why couldn't that be me? Which is interesting as I've been thinking about the heart-led business idea and, and self-trust. I think in the beginning I had a lot of self-trust, but I had no idea what I was doing. And the, the trust alone wasn't enough to get me there. And then I went through kind of this messy middle where I didn't have the self-trust, but I did know what I was doing. And now I've kind, I feel like I've sort of emerged on the other side and have both. But basically I started an online business and very stubbornly sort of felt like I, can do this on my own, and was taking in so much. Was consuming so much content about how to build a business that I was spreading myself super thin, trying to be everywhere and do all the things and doing none of them particularly well, or you know, fruitfully.

Tom Jackobs: 5:14

Sounds familiar.

Esther Avant: 5:15

And if yes and then eventually it started working with business coaches and people who could help me get some traction. And I was very well positioned going into the pandemic that I had really kind of created the foundation of building a reputation for myself on. Online having a a, a business that was ready to receive all of these people who were now stuck at home and like, you know what, I should do something about my health. So we really skyrocketed through the pandemic and being confronted with some of the things during that time is what really helped me realize that I wasn't necessarily focused on what I wanted to be doing or the business that I wanted to be creating. I had so gotten so caught up in the numbers and making how much per month and we need, how much to sustain it, and what am I supposed to do next? Who should I hire at this level that I realized it was just sucking the life out of me.

Tom Jackobs: 6:09

Yeah.

Esther Avant: 6:09

And it was all consuming. And I just felt like I wasn't even enjoying the things that I had had been working for for years. These milestones that I was surpassing, I wasn't enjoying them. I was so stressed that it was gonna crumbling down and wasn't able to, you know, really reap the benefits. And that's when I. Realized something needed to change. And it also coincided with my family moving back from Europe where we'd been stationed and coming back to the US and just realized what an opportunity I had to sort of not do things over, but let things evolve in a way that worked better for me and made me more present as a mother, more present as a wife, happier as a person where my business didn't feel like it was defining me anymore. It just felt like it was part of who I am.

Tom Jackobs: 6:57

Hmm. I love that. Yeah. What a, what a journey as, as well, just, woo. Who, just outta curiosity, who were some of the early online people in the, you know, 2010s? Because that's about the same time that I started MyFitness business in 20, uh, in 2008, uh, brick and mortar. Um, had no idea what I was doing either, by the way. Um, but who were some of the, the folks that you, uh, were watching and learning from during that timeframe?

Esther Avant: 7:27

Yeah, there was kind of this conglomerate of female trainers that created this platform called Girls Gone Strong and then have since sort of splintered off. But, um, let me see. Jen Comis was one of them. Um, a lot of their names are escaping. It's been so long since then. But that was kind of, that was one crew, Molly, um, can't remember her last name, but, uh, Molly, somebody. And there was like John Romanello, uh, Jay, what was it? Like Fi Figaro or something like that. Um, just like a lot of people who were writing blogs and had these physiques and, and were making it look easy. Um, so that was kind of my, my introduction. It's like, oh, well if the girl's gone strong group are writing blogs, then I should be writing blogs and if, you know, if they're posting on this platform, I should be doing that too. And it's interesting to see kind of how. Their careers have evolved over the years. Maybe once every year or two, a name pops in my head and I kind of go down the rabbit hole of what are they doing now. And some are still in the industry and very active, and others have, you know, gone off the grid. And that's I think, kind of comforting to say too is like even the, even your, know, idols, for lack of a better word, they evolve too, and they decide either this is no longer aligned or it still is and like it's all fine.

Tom Jackobs: 8:38

Yeah. Yeah. It's always interesting when you look back at, at people that you followed, you know, and, and that have influenced you, uh, through, through the career, and I'm sure people are doing that for you as well as you've been working with people for so long also. So when, when you. Started the business in 2010. You were talking about just the spreadsheets and the finances and all that. How, how did that feel to you to just be focused on like the numbers and the profit?

Esther Avant: 9:11

You know, at first I think it felt inspiring It gave me something specific to work toward,

Tom Jackobs: 9:19

Sure.

Esther Avant: 9:20

and that I think was a good thing. It helped me, treat the business less like a hobby and more like I am A CEO. And part of the things CEOs do are look at p and ls and crunch numbers and figure out, you know, what is the cost of acquiring a client? What is my retention? What is their lifetime value? Understanding like the business side, I think, you know, especially starting as a personal trainer, I got into fitness management after a while and would hire new trainers and it was so, so common that. Trainers just wanted to train. They didn't want to have a business. They just wanted to do the part that they enjoyed. And I've since learned that no matter what the job is, there are going to be aspects that you like and are good at and wanna do mostly. And there's gonna be stuff that you don't, but you, you need to figure out at least temporarily, until you can get to the point that you can outsource it. So I think early on it was helpful to give myself a better understanding of the business. Just the basic things that any, you know, kind of anybody with an MBA would be like, oh, you know, what's, what is your, profit margin, that sort of thing. What are your monthly expenses? How are those broken down? That sort of thing. I think that was really helpful, but then it sort of turns a corner where. You're so focused on that and you're so focused on beating your best months every month and it just starts to feel like your success is, is riding on that. And I even had a business coach I worked with and, and kind of talked through these things, you know, and she was saying, no one, but you is expecting your revenue to increase every single month. Like if you look at the biggest corporations in the world, they have down quarters and you know, none of this is required. This is all kind of, you have built this up in your head, but when you're so focused on the financials. You don't really know how else to define your success. So it feels like, well, if I felt good about making 10 grand last month, then if I make 10 grand again this month, that means I'm stagnant. So now I need to be doing more and more and more. And it just reaches a really unsustainable point I mean, maybe for some people they enjoy always being focused on that. But for me, it just felt so exhausting and so like I thought it would be, I thought I could kind of relax and take a deep breath once I reached this milestone, that milestone, and it just never came.

Tom Jackobs: 11:40

Yeah.

Esther Avant: 11:41

And I realized it was never going to come unless I made, a change.

Tom Jackobs: 11:47

Yeah, and, and you know, most of the people that I talked to, and I think this is why we connected so, so, so much, is because everybody comes to it with their heart-led business. They just think about the, the, heart part of it and the delivery and just being, you know, doing the thing and they miss the business piece. And where like you and I started on the business piece first and kind of missed the heart thing a little bit. But I think it, you know, if, if, if I were to say so that it, it, I think it's easier to go the business and then move towards heart than heart into business because now you have the foundations to go, oh, I need to put more heart into this, less head and just. Really take care of the people and then the profits will happen. And I think we need to go through that.

Esther Avant: 12:41

I completely agree.

Tom Jackobs: 12:42

Yeah. So was there.

Esther Avant: 12:43

Exactly how I feel. Yeah. That I had to, I kinda had to go through this transition in order to arrive in the, it's just like I tell clients, you know, you will, you will often experiment with extremes before you find your way to a sustainable middle. And it's just like, none of that is, is wrong. It's just like you gotta, you gotta experience it to find what works for you.

Tom Jackobs: 13:02

Yeah, it's, it's your journey, right? Yeah. So how, what was that tipping point for you where you decided I need to put more heart into this and less focus on the numbers? Like, what was that tipping point?

Esther Avant: 13:17

It was probably a series of nudges towards the edge that I, you know, tried to ignore for a while. The first one that comes to mind is, like I said, we were stationed in Germany, so we had the opportunity to travel a ton and we were in, I wanna say Bruge Belgium. And it's like, it is just such a, like, I mean, anywhere in Europe that you've never been is such a cool place to be. But I distinctly remember my husband wanting to do, I can't remember exactly what kind of sightseeing it was or like what thing he wanted to do, and I just. Felt like I couldn't do, I had to stay in the Airbnb and do, who knows what work. Of course. I can't even remember that. That's how, that's how insignificant it was in the grand scheme of things. Right, right. Yeah. And, and we got, we got into a, an argument about it and how I, how I wasn't able to. Shut off the work brain that it just felt like, you know, one the benefits of owning your own business was supposed to be that you have the freedom and the flexibility to travel and make your own hours and live this like really well balanced lifestyle and instead you are so anxious and so in your head and in the business all the time that you can't even take a step back and appreciate. We're here probably for the only time in our lives and we're all together and there are beautiful and amazing things to see. And you're saying you wanna stay in this Airbnb with your nose in the computer. So that was one kind of moment of awakening. And then I think what really sort of forced my hand was the move back to the US which if you've never done an international move, especially with the military, is a very drawn out process where you know, all of your things get taken from your current place and in hotels and short-term places for months until your stuff arrives and until you can find somewhere to move into. And it's just, life is a very disjointed for a good chunk of time and there's not really a, a firm end in sight. So it really just sort of forced me. We had, my son was, let's see, four I think when we moved back and. We're back in the US for the first time in years. We don't have a house, we don't have childcare. So my husband would wake up. He's, he is in a, in a new role, so he is gotta be really focused on work, which means that I'm doing the childcare and so wake up in this hotel, he is gone already. I have all day, all week to kill with this, you know, with this kid where I'm not settled, we're sharing a car, like just all the, all the things. I did not really have the option to focus on the business the way I had been. And it sort of forced me to experience all of the worst case scenarios that I had been spinning about in my head of. What if this is the month where we get no new clients? What if this is the month where revenue drops? What if this is the month where you have to let somebody go? All of these fears that I had had, you know, some of'em started coming true, which obviously didn't feel good. Wasn't thrilled about it, but I lived to see another day. I realized that. What felt like the worst case scenario really wasn't that bad. I still had my family, I still had my health, I still had my roof over my head. I still had a profitable business, you know, for, it, you just kind of make these things in your head that become larger than life and you totally. I don't realize it until it happens. You know, I had the, the nights that I laid awake thinking how are we gonna get, you know, extra number of new clients this month? And like, what if we don't? And, and just like the, the fear I had, and then those things started happening and I was like, well, actually things are fine, you know, not that I want this to, to continue for forever. So, you know, so I'm left with nothing, but maybe it's a good thing that this is allowing me to take a step back because the reality is if the business continued growing at the rate that it had been. What would I have done? I would, I still would've had to be in this hotel room with this kid and, and none of those circumstances were gonna change. I just would've been spreading myself thinner and thinner. So it really kind of forced me to take a step back and be like, okay, you know what? This is an opportunity. This isn't something that's happening to you. This is something that's happening for you. And you get to decide from here what the business that you. Continue building and then start rebuilding from here actually looks like it's al. It almost felt like a do-over of, okay, I went kind of too far down that road and now I'm back at a fork in the road where I get to decide now that you've got a little bit more experience under your belt, what does it look like to do this in a way that really helps you live the lifestyle that you wanna be living?

Tom Jackobs: 18:05

Yeah. Wow. Great, great stories, both of those great stories and what great lessons. I'm sure they weren't great at the time, but what a great lesson to just help you really evaluate what's important for you personally so that you can bring all of your heart to the business. And was that part of it as well that you just felt disconnected from the business a bit or that it wasn't in congruence with, with you and, and what you wanted out of life?

Esther Avant: 18:37

Yeah, great question. I still love coaching and I love what I coach on and I love our clients and I know that I'm good at it and I feel like, you know, I certainly don't wanna stop doing those things. I think part of it was starting to feel like a broken record. Partly thanks to Facebook saying six years ago today, here's what you posted, or here's what you said, and being like, well, great. I also said that today, and just sort of feeling like I was kind of shouting into the abyss where, you know, even though, I keep an entire folder of. Testimonials and kind words and, and clients telling me that you, you helped me change my life. So I know that I've had an impact, but sometimes it just feels so insignificant and, you know, the, the right factor, the, the right, variables converge. That's the word I'm looking for at the right time. And you just think like. Am I making any difference? Is what I'm doing mattering at all? And you know, I'm stressing myself out so much about it. Like for what? So I think part of it was just starting to feel like a little burnt out from continuing to say the same things over and over again. Which interestingly, I started to feel that way after writing the book. I think it was because I poured so much of what I had to say into it, that I was like, I don't want to be breaking this into the tiny, you know, 32nd snippets. What you really need is to buy this book and read it, and it will teach you everything that you need. And I, I just wanted to keep saying those things less when I felt like I've already created kind of my, my masterpiece, for lack of a better word. So that was part of it. And then I, I guess maybe a little bit of it was looking for a new challenge that I just felt like the coaching itself. You know I've, I feel like I've put in my 10,000 hours, if not more. That felt easier. It wasn't, it wasn't really challenging me and that's when I started thinking about, you know, now that you have a book, what could I leverage that into? Or what could I transition to where maybe I do feel like I'm having a bigger impact? That's when I started pursuing speaking and hosting workshops and, and looking at kind of corporate opportunities in different organizations where. Maybe instead of speaking one to one, now I'm speaking one to many, or I'm speaking to the decision makers who can then have this sort of trickle down effect where a lot of people are impacted. And I haven't had to go to each of them individually and spend six to, you know, six to six to 12 months working with them. So that has sort of been my focus now, and that's sort of the, the most recent evolution of the business is I'm still coaching still. I wouldn't say focusing on, on building that arm of the business right now, but it's still there. And I'm still happy to take clients on as they come, but more so I'm just kind of embracing the new challenge of you're not great at this yet. And if you wanna be, you have to put in the reps and you have to put yourself in positions where you feel like a fraud and you have to practice and you have to go through the growing pains and knowing that, you know, not only is that helping. Other people, but it's also helping me grow as a person. So that's what feels like a win-win right now.

Tom Jackobs: 21:46

Yeah. And so how, how did that transition happen for you where you. You like for me, I got bored with the personal training because like, like you, like the business was running fine. I wasn't on the floor anymore. I had trainers working for me, had this great brick and mortar, and then, you know, decided to open up a second location. That was a big mistake and, and closed that down. And then finally sold the business, which is still going on today after six years, seven years since I've sold it. But it's. It was just like this, you know, what do I do next? Like, and, and it's that challenge I think for a lot of us. Was that this, and it sounds like it was the same for you. How did the heart move along with you? Uh, from the personal training into the new, the new venture.

Esther Avant: 22:34

Yeah, I think you're right. I think boredom was part of it that I felt like I had the coaching down and I just didn't want my focus to be on marketing and like figuring out social media. I just felt like i've got a really good skillset. I'm good at what I do, and I don't want to invest my resources in building that business. If it means, if that means taking me away from doing the thing that I enjoy and I'm good at, I'd rather figure out like, how can I do that in a way that I also enjoy? Um, I think life kind of led me to it that, like I said, my husband's in the military, he's gone for really long stretches. He'll be gone for, you know, six plus months at a time, and we were in a season when he was gone. The sole parent, and it's really important to me. My, my son's an only child. He's in kindergarten. It's really important to me that I am very steady and constant for him

Tom Jackobs: 23:39

Yeah.

Esther Avant: 23:40

while his dad's gone and when his dad's gone, I don't, I don't have that, that choice. So that really became my focus and. Knowing that I was gonna have less hours and just less everything, less energy, less desire to put toward my business, forced me to, to think more strategically about, all right, well if you're, if you're working now in limited hours, you know he's not in daycare seven 30 to five 30 like he used to be. If you're working half the hours, are you gonna be putting that time to

Tom Jackobs: 24:13

Mm.

Esther Avant: 24:14

that you enjoy? And that is moving the needle forward. And that really kind of helped me strip away. The stuff that I was continuing to do'cause I felt like I should, and really hone in on either what's the most productive and is worth doing, even if it's not your favorite. Um, like scheduling content, which is something now I have blocked out and I do, I write once a week. I get them all scheduled. I don't need to think about it. I don't love it, but it is important to kind of have a, a presence. Um, and then most of my time now goes to recording either my own podcast, being a guest on podcasts or activities related to my speaking. So going to Toastmasters, online speaking groups, pitching myself, preparing for presentations, doing, you know, free local stuff just to get reps under my belt. And now it feels really aligned with prioritizing my son, my family first, and that is my top priority. And then also, I'm prioritizing my career in a way that feels really productive and aligned with where I see it going in the future.

Tom Jackobs: 25:23

That's, that's very cool that you've, you've built the business around your life, whereas most, and it sounds like you started it with building your life around the business, which is what almost a hundred percent of entrepreneurs do when they first start a business, especially heart-led business owners.'Cause we, we just wanna give, give, give to everybody and it just, our, our cup becomes empty after a while. And so that, that's. That's really great is, I mean, it, I'm sure the heartache that took you to come up with that lesson is finally paying off and is well worth it.

Esther Avant: 26:00

Yeah, it does. It feels good and it's, it's really nice actually to have somebody ask these questions and to reflect back because we don't do that. I talk about that with clients all the time, is we don't do a lot of reflecting to see how far we've come and especially, we don't often, turn around and reflect on how the hard stuff actually ended up being a good thing. It almost always is, you know, even when you're, when you're in it, you can't possibly fathom it and then we don't give ourselves the opportunity to, to think about how it may be true in the future. So it's been really cool and I feel like I'm in a really good place. That kind of all of that was worth it. I'm glad I experienced every single piece of it because I do feel like I'm in a much better. Place now. And now that I have that experience, I have the, the trust to know that I can continue striking that balance going forward.

Tom Jackobs: 26:49

Yeah, that's great. I heard productivity or self-development guru, um, what's his name? Brendan Brouchard had said, um, trust in your ability to figure things out. It's, and, and that always struck with me because I think when we're going through that hard stuff, we don't trust in our ability to figure things out. And we always do. We always come through the other side and, and it's just a part of remembering and I think it. It comes with age as well, because then you have more reps under your belt as well. They go, oh yeah, I did that before. Oh yes, this will come back around. That's cool. I'm, I'm there. And, and I think the more it happens, the quicker you come out of it. Uh, also, so I think that that's a great lesson too.'cause kind of, I'm glad you shared that as well for the audience to remember that even if you're going through stuff right now. You've probably gone through it before, similar situations and you've gotten through on the other side, so trust in your ability to figure it out.

Esther Avant: 27:54

I love that. Yeah.

Tom Jackobs: 27:56

so Esther, how can people learn more about what you're doing and potentially hire you for speaking or other, other good stuff?

Esther Avant: 28:04

Yeah, my website is kinda the hub for all those things. It links to my speaking, my podcast, my book, my coaching. It's estheravant.com. Nothing tricky. Um, but Esther does have an H spelled the right way. And then I am on Instagram and LinkedIn. My book and podcast are both called To Your Health and they're available wherever you do those things.

Tom Jackobs: 28:26

Awesome. Well, we will definitely link all that up into the, uh, show notes as well. But Esther, thank you so much for spending your valuable time with us because I, I know, you know this is. You know your time as well as you've developed your business around it. So thank you so much for sharing your, your wisdom and your time with us today. I really appreciate it.

Esther Avant: 28:47

Thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed this conversation.

Tom Jackobs: 28:50

Awesome. Thank you. Me too. And thank you listeners for watching the show today, as we do really appreciate your tuning in to learn more about other heart-led businesses, and also make sure that you're checking out everything that Esther is doing. And we're gonna provide all that down in the show notes. So you can just go down there, click away and find your book, find your website and podcast and make sure you're checking all that out. Also while you're down there, there might be a little review button and I would really appreciate if you could give the show a good rating and review so that just shares the show with other people that could use the advice that was shared on today's show. So please do that, and I would certainly appreciate it. And until next time, lead with your heart.

Speaker 2: 29:31

You've been listening to The Heart-Led Business Show, hosted by Tom Jackobs. Join us next time for another inspiring journey into the heart of business.