Welcome to the Heart-Led Business Show, where compassion meets commerce and leaders lead with love. Join your host, Tom Jackobs, as he delves into the insightful conversations with visionary business leaders who defy the status quo, putting humanity first and profit second. From heartfelt strategies to inspiring stories, this podcast is your compass in the world of conscious capitalism. So buckle up and let your heart guide your business journey.

Ladies and gentlemen, gather round as we give a rousing round of applause for the fitness maestro himself, Eric D'Agati With over 25 years of heart hustle and healthy living. Eric has made waves from the Navy Seals to Olympic champs blending passion and performance in every program he designs. Today we're diving into his journey of building a heart-led business, all while keeping the spirit of competition alive and injury free. So lace up your metaphorical trainers and get ready to be inspired. Let's give a warm welcome to Eric D'Agati on the heart-led business show. Eric, welcome to the show.

Thank you for having me, Tom. Excited to be here.

Yeah I'm super excited too. It seems like I'm on a streak now with a bunch of fitness pros and that really warms my heart because I came out of the fitness industry as well. So I've always love to geek out on this and I'm really excited to kinda get your journey as well'cause it's very unique as well. So I'm really excited to, for this conversation. But of course, the first question I always like to ask is, what's your definition of a heart-led business?

So I gave this one some thought and what keeps coming to mind is there's a great documentary if no one's ever seen it. HBO originally put it out, it's called The Defiant Ones. And it's this unlikely story of the matching up of Jimmy Iovine world famous music producer who produced everybody from Bruce Springsteen and Tom Petty and so forth, and Dr. Dre and how they came together and they eventually created the company that they sold to Apple beats. Very cool story of how they both came, came up through. And there's a line that, that Jimmy talks about in there, and they ask him like his keys to success and he said, be of service. And that rings out in, in, in my head in, in understanding that in what we do whether it's in fitness, performance, strength, and conditioning, or even a whole bunch of other realms in what he looked at his careers to be of service. Very similar in that if I'm working with an NFL team. It's not about me, it's about the players that are on the field and just like Jimmy, it's, he's in the studio. No one's ever seen him. What they're seeing and hearing is a star that's gonna be on the stage or on the album. And so understanding to be of service to make other people better, allows us to be successful in what we do.

I love that. That's one of the best definition that I think I've heard in a very long time, just being in service and that can be any industry as well in any service. I love that. That's, yeah, very heart-led.

Yeah. And so I take probably just as much learning from other industries and taking and applying to, to, to what we do. If I'm reading two books simultaneously, one is always the technical and how do I teach you better things of how to maximize, physically, but then learning how to problem solve, which essentially what you know, my job and what most jobs are learning how to problem solve and learning how to problem solve from other industries. So I just finished Dan Heath's book, reset about how they problem solve in all these different scenarios and how to create systems and how to do that and basically taking from that and then how do I apply that to what I do each day is probably the best thing that I've ever done for myself professionally is continue to learn from people who are not in my field. But they really good at problem solving. And then how do I take that and apply to what I do?

Oh, I love that. Yeah. It's like skill stacking to create that really unique and broad range of knowledge. Yeah that's great. So tell us a little bit about your business and what makes it heart-led.

It's about people and basically people come to me and like I said, they're coming to me to solve a problem. And so luckily I was smart enough to know early on, even when I didn't know anything that it wasn't about teaching you exercises or signing reps and sets and that was the means to the end. That wasn't the end. Ultimately, what you're coming in for is your why. Okay. And then me being curious enough, thankfully that I would do what a lot of people in service don't do, is I and I talk about this when we coach other coaches and trainers and clinicians is ask the second question, Tom, when's the last time your doctor asked a second question? No. So it's always the first question. If they get to the first question, you're lucky. And then they're not even and they've actually done research where they've looked at physical therapists and they said the amount of time that they spent listening to their clients on an, patients on intake was less than a handful of minutes if at that. And to I need you to be heard. And so to do that, I have to ask the second question.'cause the first question doesn't get to the real reason you're here. You're not really here to lose the five pounds or to put the 10 pounds on your bench press. That represents something deeper. And so it means you want to do something about and ultimately what a lot of it ties back to is identity. And you wanna change some, either you need to fortify your identity or you need to change your identity. Not getting to that in the first question. And so being able to ask that second, that third question why? What does that represent? What can you do? What does life look like for you when that happens? Or when you are that five pounds lighter? And then you start to get to the real reasons. And that's really the problem that I have to solve. And then it also paves the path force. So now if you're my client Tom, I can say, okay, listen, if you want to get to here, you want to be able to have that. Freedom that you wanna be able to run up the stairs and not get outta breath, or you want to be able to play around a golf without having to take, fistfuls of Advil. This is what we're going to have to do. And so it allows them to see the picture. It's not, do five of these because I said they're good, because that's arbitrary.

Yeah, exactly. And that, that mirrors exact, almost exactly like my whole sales philosophy and methodology. I call it the WHAT-WHY-WHAT-WHY method of just finding out what the problem is and, the first what is always, what's your goal? What do you want to accomplish? Which is kinda that surface level. But then the next question, the why is that important to you is so important to ask. You get that motivation and whether you're trying to sell something or motivate somebody to do something with exercise or what have you. Knowing what their why is helps both of you, because now I imagine that you have a client that's might be struggling in month three. Month four. You just bring'em back to that why, and it's like a snap of the finger and they're back at it.

Yeah and also because I want to be transparent and say, look, this, it may even be very simple what we need to do, but it's not going to be easy and there's going to be days that you're not gonna wanna do this. And we want to get that, we want, and there's gonna be some things that are going to get in your way. So what are gonna be those hurdles? Let's look at'em now and let's have a strategy for when those hurdles come up and understand what the expectation is and understand that you don't need to be perfect to get to where you need to go. And having that understanding where it's not going to be easy, but you're also going to have that balance of. Of pushing them, but also allowing them to give themselves some grace that it's not going to be perfect all the time. You're not gonna feel like getting up every time and doing this. You're not gonna have the greatest workout in the world. Every time you work in walk in the door, you're not going to eat perfectly every time. But if we consistently stack, as you said, enough ha a good habits, that you're going to be a different person in a couple months and in a couple years.

With Atomic Habits was one book that we always had our training clients read when they came into my fitness center. And that just the little things that you do that, that get you to get that habit, to get that pers, to really ingrain it into your body as well makes a huge difference rather than, just, I see the guys at the gym now, the trainer's at the gym here and they're just counting reps. It's like one, two, like that doesn't do anything for. Unfortunately. So tell me a little bit about your journey to get to where you are.'cause I'm sure it hasn't been rainbows and butterflies the entire time of your career. So where did you start and how did you get to where you are today?

Yeah, no, I didn't decide, oh, I wanna get into fitness. And then an NFL team called me the next day. So it started out saying, Hey, I'd like to, get into fitness. And there was two back of my mind motivators that were there. One was. I had some really bad back pain in my early twenties. Was sleeping on the floor for probably a good three months, just'cause I'm incredibly stubborn. And finally my mom said, you gotta go get this looked at. So I went not knowing any better. I just went to my general practitioner, waited in the office for probably a good two plus hours to wait sitting on the tissue paper for another hour for him to walk in and poke around at my back and look. Kind of clueless. And he said to me could be anything, could be slipped, disc, pinched nerve, could be anything. really? I waited for all this for that. I said, mom works in a gift shop. She could have guessed that. I said, so I went to the gym and I just, I looked at every exercise that said back, and I just did it. And my back felt better. And so I'm like, okay I wanna learn more about this stuff so I'm not just aimlessly going at it. And as I started to learn and get more inquisitive about it,'cause I'd always worked out just with sports and things growing up, I wanted to learn a little bit more about it. And so that kind of led me on a journey to not just being more fitness driven. Yeah. I was competed in bodybuilding and I did, I was the meathead and I was the, the guy who, who worked out for football and baseball. But, I got more inquisitive about how is this, can I heal myself? And the other thing in the back of my mind is my grandmother she had four knee, four major knee surgeries, two replacements. She didn't play, she didn't play, didn't get checked into the boards in an ice hockey game. She didn't, wasn't a mogul skier. She wasn't, she wasn't any of those things but her, she got to the point where she had a morphine pump in inside her stomach because there's just so much pain. And I thought like if someone along the way had just her and just helped her out and like just. Hey, look, you need a little more mobility. You need a little more, a little more strength, and you don't have to have these knee pains. Her life would've been vastly different. And I think about that and I said, okay how, how do I have the ability to have this power to change people's lives and not have that when they get to that fork in the road that it's not a scalpel, that it's just a couple exercises and things that they can empower themselves to change? And that kind of led me to want learning more and more. Started off as a. Trainer in just a big box gym like a lot of people did. I was a one of 18 sharks swimming in the same small waters looking for clients. And so how am I gonna differentiate myself? I was the guy that, this is going back 27 years almost. We had these corrugated boxes at the front desk that, if you remember, we used to have them where you'd fill out a form if you wanna win a free personal training session, fill it out, and you drop it in the box. I'd get there at five in the morning every morning, and I'd empty the box and I'd wait till 9 0 1 and I called everybody and Greg, congratulations. You won. When can you come in for your appointment? And thankfully enough of those people liked what I had to say and they said, how do I sign up for more of this? And that's how I built my clientele from scratch. And then from there, outgrew that and eventually ventured off and vent rented space into a facility that I eventually took over, opened up my own facility. Back in 2001 had that and grew that to where we, we grew to over 10,000 square feet, 10 trainers. We had multidisciplinary things with physical therapy and chiropractic care and performance training and group fitness classes and all these things going on. I. As that was all happening, I also got into fitness education'cause I, it did, the mentors who taught me did so much for me. I wanted to, I looked at them on the stage and I wanted to be the guy teaching the workshop. And so got into, involved in doing some of that and teaching for a company called Functional Movement Systems back from their inception, became a lead instructor that grew to where I was teaching all over the world and then started to teach some of my own content. And so I had these kind of dual paths of education as well as being the practitioner and the consultant. I got to a point where I was getting, more work performance, working with high school teams, college teams eventually got a call from an, the local NFL team. Started working with them, worked with them for nine years. It got to be a point where it was just too much. So I got rid of the facility and then just stuck with the training and consulting, which I still do. And then as well as the trainer education.

Wow. What very similar kinda pathway in terms of the drop the box and that I did at the big box gym as well. I, I did fat assessment, so I did the whole calipers and that, that was usually pretty good to get peak, get clients, oh yeah, you're obese on this scale. We need to work out now. And that's always fun. So how great of a day was it when you sold your fitness business, the brick and mortar?

It's in some ways I joke that it's like owning a boat. The best days of the day you get it and the day you get rid of it. But now looking back I. I'm very proud of what we did there in that one, like back in, in early two thousands and late nineties when I started and I had this vision of this multidisciplinary center of where you would have all these things and these professionals working together and have a system to where if you came in, okay, Tom, he's coming in for a fitness program, but we noticed something that he has pain in this movement. So let me walk you over to the chiropractor's office and she's gonna be able to work with you on this. Or the physical therapist could work, and that didn't happen back then. Now it's common, now it's commonplace. But back then people thought I was crazy. And so to try to I was pulling people in to try to say look, this is what it could be. And so we were way ahead of the curve with that. And so that was, and so looking back, that was something that I was grateful for in, in terms of that experience. The other thing I look back on now is fast forwarding. I have a lot of good friends who now, what's changed in fitness education, especially since after the pandemic is a need that wasn't, that has always been there, but what nobody really was serving was fitness people were really passionate about fitness, but they didn't really know a lot about business. And I was one of'em, I had no idea how to manage people and do all the business side of things. That was always a struggle for me owning the facility. Now there's some people that do some incredible business mentorships that now I, listen, I. I have friends that do these and I'll sit in and listen to their workshops. Where was this when I needed it 20 years ago? If I had this, I'd probably still have that facility, quite frankly. But that's, where I look at the brick and mortar is it was a lot of me going out on a limb and taking a lot of chances and doing a lot of things that people weren't doing to try to stand out and, I had, I known now what I, had I known then what I know now, I'd probably still have it. But, I look back with no regrets in terms of what I did there.

Yeah that, that's great. Having a mentor in business I think is so important no matter what the business is. And same for me, like when I opened up my fitness business in 2008, height of the housing crisis, which was a really great time to open a new business. I almost went broken six months, but it was because I got that, excuse me the sales training that enabled and from a fitness consulting company that I was able to, save that business and continue on and sold it 10 years later. But it's, yeah, the business side, especially for that heart-led entrepreneur is really the biggest struggle because you're talking about your passion and trying to be forward and serving people. But you can't do that if you're not making profit. So how did you manage that then in terms of making sure that you got the business education or had people around you that could help you with that business?

So a couple things. One is for myself, I always had a very clear vision of who we wanted to be in, the brand we wanted to have for ourselves in that I wanna be able to put my head on the pillow and at the end of the night and know that I. Whatever legacy I'm gonna leave. And when people talk about what I do in, in, in our facility that it or working with me that has, certain criteria to that. And so there have been opportunities along the way that I turned down that could have been better profit centers quite frankly. And then even on the individual level. There's been plenty of clients that, that I've had I had two referrals in the last week as a matter of fact that I sent to other places. I said, you're not the right fit for what I do. And and the reason for that is because could I have, put the square peg in the round hole and just taken on that client and made a couple extra a hundred bucks? Sure. But what's that going to do when someone. Says, oh, you worked with Eric. How was that experience? Oh, lemme try it. It was all right. It didn't really worked out for me. I'd rather not have those walking around. I wanna let you know, and I have a phone call with someone today who wants to send his son in to me for some performance training, and I'm gonna, and I said I'm not going to see him until we have a conversation to, to let you know, transparently, this is what the expectation's going to be, this is how it works, this is how my program runs, as opposed to other programs that may be available to your son. And I'm gonna tell you, quite frankly, having had sons that, that went through this as young athletes. They may not be the right fit for me, and if they're not, then I'll give you some suggestions of where to go. And I wanna make sure that this is something that you understand what you're getting into and what the expectations are.'cause I don't wanna waste anybody's time, effort, or money here. And I'm very at peace that if you say that's not what I'm looking for, then fine. And I'm not trying to sell you. I've, I got out of the convincing business a long time ago.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean that, that's really going back to your core value of serving people and being of service to others. That you don't wanna give them a false hope or give them something that might be mediocre at best.

And there's also things that aren't in my wheelhouse. There's certain things that are, that I'm really good at. That I'm, that I'll go up against anybody in the world with. And then there's other things that are not my thing. So there's certain clients that are, I'm not the right fit for. And so that's where I want to get you in some, with someone who is, if you're someone that needs someone to get you to work out, I'm not your guy. There's people who are better motivators than me. If you're someone that, look, I'm already working out, I just don't know what to do. I'm a really good problem solver, and I can get you that. Do your program dialed in, so I'm perfect for you there. So even when I was working much more in performance, if someone came to me and they had certain goals and certain sports that they're working with, I was perfect for them. But if they said, oh, I want to get ready for the NFL combine, I'll say, look I can help you a little bit. And I've helped people for that, but I have a guy that I know, you know that's right down the road that is, is better than anybody in the world with this. I'd rather have you go to him.

That takes a lot of integrity as well, especially if you're in a new business and you're maybe struggling with cashflow, to be very certain. Just to have that integrity, like I said, to turn down, potential clients. Have there been times where it's been a real struggle, like maybe early on in the business?

Yeah, absolutely. And it wasn't even just early on there's been multiple steps along the way. There's the, there's never that, there's, and that's the, one of the things I've learned, the wisdom that you gain over time is that you always think there's that thing, oh, now I'm working for an NFL team. That's gonna be the thing where every, it's all gonna be paved in gold from here on in, and it's not. It's not, it helps, it certainly helps. It's certainly seminal in terms of your journey, but it's never one thing that your problems are all gonna go away. And, and yeah but you have to understand is the short-term game worth the long-term risk. And so again you're only as good as your reputation. I am selling you, me. And it, the business of me depends on. The, that reputation and if I have a lot of, walking business cards out there that are not stellar, then there's only so long I'm going to last and that's where I was gonna say the irony of our industry is that now what's happened is that you have tons of business mentors. Everybody's gotten into business mentorship. I get I'm telling you, if you're a fitness professional, I get probably one. message a day saying, oh, I could fill your book with, 25 leads a week and this whole thing. Meanwhile, the kid's 19. It's but now what's happened is people have forgotten that you actually need to be good. so that's where we've pivoted and my fitness education is, and we do a mentorship on that side to say, okay, look, even if that kid is right and he can get you 25 leads, if they all show up tomorrow to you. gonna be the worst thing that ever happen to your business.'cause you stink, right? You're not good. And so now everybody in town's gonna know you're not good. And now you're done. And so maybe the worst thing in the world for you is to get 25 leads right now.'cause you don't know what to do with them. And so what we try to look at is, and the other model I look at that ties into what you're talking about that's heart-led, is that we teach the people that go through our fitness education program and our mentorship is we teach them how to try to build what we call forever clients. A forever client is someone that. Like the clients that I have, the clients that I have clients that I've had for literally 20 plus years. And they were, they were there when my kids were born. My kids are now both out of college, and so they, they are, I, they've been through that journey and it's not because I give the greatest workout programs because a lot of'em probably are doing a lot of the same exercise they've been doing for most of those 20 years. It's because they, there's a trust there, there's a bond there. And you don't always know what's behind that door If you're gonna go and work with a coach, a trainer, a clinician, a physical therapist. And so to be able to build that trust that not only are they gonna be here forever, if you look at that from a business standpoint. If you got 25 leads and then you have'em for a three month summer challenge, and then they all go away, now you gotta get 25 more leads and there's a cost to that. And if you look at that cost amortized over time, I weight make way more money than you because I don't have to keep filling that bucket all the time.'cause not only do my clients never leave, but also they bring more people into the tent as opposed to me having to go out and chase them.

Yeah, exactly. Looking at the lifetime value of a client, and that was the same in my fitness business. I had multiple clients that were, that we're still training after I sold the business. They'd been with me the entire time and, I kid them, I was like, oh, thanks for buying my car. The value of that client for 10 years is incredible. And if you're, like you said, if you're have that leaky bucket and you're just having to refill all the time, you're spending so much more money on marketing when you could just be living off of referrals and, recommendations from your current clients.

A hundred percent. And there's also a comfort comfortability and familiarity with that, that when you're walking in and knowing, okay, I know who I'm seeing this morning and if I'm not having the greatest day, they're gonna have some grace with me. That I have to be on.'cause I'm constantly trying to sell you to show up for the next session.

Yeah, exactly. So what piece of advice might you offer to somebody that is, ha has that business, that heart-led business really wants to, really go for it, but is struggling on the business side? What piece of advice would you give them?

You alluded to it earlier, you need to find the right mentor and. Someone that's actually done it. Now, the, one of the things that we joke about with a lot of these fitness business mentors that are out there is they're basically failed personal trainers. Whereas you need somebody who's actually doing it, who's in it, like we say with our mentorship for in terms of, how we're teaching you how to be one of the best coaches or trainers or clinicians in the world is, we can confidently say that because we're still doing it. We're in the trenches doing it. We've trained. I can't count how many tens of thousands of sessions I've done. I'm still doing it. I'm still improving. I'm still learning, and so I'm actually done it. I have the track record and I continue to do it so I understand what you're going through. So you need to find somebody who's, whatever field you're in or whatever industry you're in, you need to find whoever it is that has had success in that.'cause success leaves clues, and follow their blueprint. Instead of doing what I did, which is taking. 25 years of basically screwing up to, to learn from it is save yourself that trouble. It'll save you in the long run. Whatever you invest in that is, is still a savings. If someone can save you the trouble of having to make all those mistakes.

Hundred percent because if you learn from somebody else's mistakes, obviously you don't have to make the same mistake and the same cost. I. I keep kicking myself when I should have had the business mentor before opening up the facilities that I was very well prepared going into it.'cause I had no idea how to run a small business even though I'd managed millions of dollars in, in, in budget for a oil and gas company. It's completely different. And having that guide that knows all the pitfalls, saves so much time and money, it's incredible. That's great advice.

And also somebody who knows specifically what you're looking for.'cause you could have someone who's, I had people early on that were brilliant business people, but they didn't understand the dynamics of, okay, your biggest expense in the fitness industry. An example is your staffing. Okay how much do you pay your coaches and trainers? I realized after the fact I way overpaid for what I had. And so not understanding. Okay. How do you get good people and pay them well and take care of them so they stay with you, but not overpay them for services that they're not providing or talent that they don't have. And so you'll only know that if you have somebody who's done that, and it doesn't equate to, okay, my, my client who has an insanely successful trucking business. It's not the same as hiring a bunch of guys to drive dump trucks. And knowing somebody who knows the ins and outs of okay, and also understands the ebb and flow of, Hey, look in August. In August, no ones gonna be here. And you gotta be, prepare, be prepared for that.'cause your rent's gonna be exactly the same. And knowing, knowing and understanding, and be able to forecast for that knowing and understanding that, hey, know that trainer who's your best trainer who's, kicking butt. They're probably gonna leave if they get really successful. And so you have to be ready for that. And how are you gonna handle that? And what are your systems in place for that? And so that's why getting somebody who's. Done this before and walked the path for you makes it a whole lot easier than trying to, hack your way through and create the path yourself.

It's so true. I remember the, one of the first jobs that I had at a, it was a high-end club. They paid a percentage that was like 80% of the session rate came to the trainer. I'm like, and I was doing the math. I was like, but. What you pay in tax is more than they were losing money on every session that was being done. I was like, who is in charge of this? Of course I didn't tell anybody because I enjoyed that 80% of the, but you just, you can't make any money doing that. And it's having somebody that, and this was a corporation, so that they're not even looking at the numbers really. But, having a mentor that's been there, done that can say you know what? It needs to be a lot less than that so that you can actually make a profit. Yeah, it's crazy. It was a crazy club actually. So cool. Eric, this has been just a fascinating conversation and you've taken me down some memory lanes and I appreciate that. I know our audience appreciates your wise advice as well. How can people learn more about what you do and to get in contact with you?

Okay, so the main hub where you can find me is just my website, which is just my name. It's Eric D'Agati, ericdagati.com. And there it directs you to wherever you should be. There's, I have all my social media on there. There's a thing on there since I do a lot of public speaking and things like this where I have an Ask Eric thing on the main page. So if you had a question about training or any of those things, drop it to me. That'll go to my email. But then there's kind of two journeys you could go on if you're looking for training and coaching that'll send you to eternal athletics. And what I do with that, and a lot of my focus with my. My coaching and training has, most of it has moved online virtually. I have a pretty outstanding app that I'm able to deliver what I was able to deliver in person now virtually, so I can work with people all over the world. And my focus has gotten more from athletes where I've got the cool jerseys behind me and the stories and all that stuff to tell. Where now moving a little bit more towards training me and what is me is the. A guy who's over 40 who's wants to live forever and kick some ass and is not ready to go to a rocking chair anytime soon. And so I'm dealing with specializing in guys over 40 who are ultra competitive. Still want to be able to do those things. That's on the coaching side, but for the professionals and more of your audience, I have a partner, Mike Perry, who's another brilliant coach up in the Boston area who we created something called Principles of Program Design. when people hear that, they think, oh, we teach you reps and sets and so forth. That's the part of it. But we teach you how to bring somebody through the client journey from what should you have been thinking before you even think about taking on a client to, okay, how do you connect with a client when they walk in the door? What testing should you do to gain the most information? What are you gonna do with that information? How do you then. Start to build a program, how do you build it around them holistically, taking in all the factors of their lifestyle, and then how do you adjust that program when they don't have their best day? And then how do you progress and regress and the art form of that. And we have online courses, we have live courses. And I said one of the best things we've done as a mentorship, we have coaches and clinicians from all of the world where. We not only teach them continually and educate them continually each week on our coaching calls, but we also hold them accountable where they have to submit case studies and they have to show us that they're putting into practice. And we've developed some unbelievable coaches and trainers who are doing some great things. And so that's probably something I'm super, super excited about. And you can get all that information through my website. We also have a. A thing that we created for people who wanna find out more about, our trainer development is we created an ebook. It's basically, we sat down, Mike and I, and said, okay, if I had 10 minutes with you and say I could give you 10 tips, like how do you. Become one of the top 1% in this industry and do some of the things that we've done.'cause Mike's done the same. He's worked with some of the top MMA fighters in the world. He owns a very successful facility in Boston. He also speaks internationally as like I've done. And so we put it all in an ebook, which is soon going to be a a workshop that you'll an online workshop you'll have access to. It'll take the ebook and bring it to life. It's and you can get that at Top Trainer book. Dot com. And so you just go to top trainer book.com. You'll get the free ebook with those 10 tips. And then we'll once the workshop is the online workshop's ready to go, which we'll have a workbook that you'll go through as well, that'll be able to. So if you wanna learn from our mistakes of, we have Mike and I 50 combined years of screwing it up we can save you a lot of trouble by just starting with the, these simple 10 tips.

Oh, that's awesome Eric. Thanks for providing that for the audience and obviously for your business as well, that's really great resources and thank you so much for being on the show today and taking your time out and sharing your journey with us. I really appreciate it.

I appreciate you having me on, and I love what you're doing here and getting more people to be heartfelt in their business and that, and be in, in our industry more transformational and not transactional. And kudos to you and thank you for the opportunity to be on with you.

Very welcome and thank you listeners and those watching on YouTube as well. We really do appreciate it and make sure you're checking out everything that Eric is doing and we're gonna provide all those links down in the show notes so that it makes it very easy for you just to click and go and check out everything that he is doing. And also, while you're down there, if you could do me a favor and hit that little review button and give the show a rating and review. And that really helps spread the word about the heart-led business show and those that really need that advice to build on their passion and really have a great business. And until next time, lead with your heart.

You've been listening to The Heart-Led Business Show, hosted by Tom Jackobs. Join us next time for another inspiring journey into the heart of business.