Speaker: 0:01

Welcome to the Heart-Led Business Show, where compassion meets commerce and leaders lead with love. Join your host, Tom Jackobs, as he delves into the insightful conversations with visionary business leaders who defy the status quo, putting humanity first and profit second. From heartfelt strategies to inspiring stories, this podcast is your compass in the world of conscious capitalism. So buckle up and let your heart guide your business journey.

Tom Jackobs: 0:36

Welcome back to the Heart-Led Business show where we shine a light on heartfelt entrepreneurs. And today we're joined by John Graham Harper, the dynamic CEO of Lumaflex, and a champion of red light therapy. From conquering injuries in rugby and CrossFit to revolutionizing recovery, John's mission sparkles with purpose, helping individuals embrace health without the fuss of pharmaceuticals. Buckle up as we dive into the illuminating journey of a Heart-Led Business powerhouse. John, welcome to the show.

John Harper: 1:08

Thank you. I really appreciate the opportunity to share. You've got a wonderful podcast here, a very professional studio I might say. You build trust with your audience. The audience loves your content, so the opportunity to be on your platform and access to your audiences is very much appreciated.

Tom Jackobs: 1:26

No problem. I'm actually really excited about our conversation today. We don't get a lot of manufacturing on the show, so it's always good to get a kinda a different perspective on Heart-Led Businesses, but of course you came out of the health and wellness industry anyway, and you kinda support that with your red light therapy. So I think this will be a really cool conversation. So I'm really excited, but I always like to ask the first question. What's your definition of a Heart-Led Business?

John Harper: 1:51

Yeah, I mean from the name of your show, the Heart-Led Business. The way I read that is like a passion based business, and I've talked a lot about passion based businesses in my past'cause for me, anything that I do myself, any kind of business or any project or venture, whatever it is, big or small. And then of course, right now it's Lumaflex has always been a passion-based business. It's been a business that I'm, wakes me up out of bed by itself. I don't have to motivate myself to do it. And I've always in my life because I've I've had a lot of failures and I've looked at people that have done businesses where they just care about the money or the, the day's task. And I see wow, you do have more options. You do have more it seems like you've got maybe a bit more financial security. And I've always wondered I should try that, but I've never been able to successfully try it because I get bored and I'm like, ah, I don't, I just gravitate away from it. Like my energy just goes somewhere else. I just don't answer the phone or I don't show up and I'm just like, well, I guess my heart wasn't in that, yeah, it's kinda like a blessing and a curse I think.

Tom Jackobs: 2:58

Yeah.

John Harper: 2:58

Yeah.

Tom Jackobs: 2:59

That's a great definition. You didn't say keep you up at night, but wakes you up in the morning energized.

John Harper: 3:04

Yes. Very well put.'Cause I do stay up. I remember like when I was a personal trainer, I remember staying up at night thinking about my clients, like how can I, how trying to hack their psychology. How can I motivate them to achieve more? I remember just, I remember and some clients who were having difficulty, like the weight loss or with people's opinion of them. I remember I would toss and turn at night just thinking about them and I at that time,'cause I was younger, I never thought like wow, this is strange.'cause if your heart isn't in it, you don't care. You just you show up, you do your time and you're like, Hey, whatever, i'll see you six o'clock on Monday, ready for your session, bye. But for me, I was always like just something inside of me wanted to do a little bit extra and I was like, how can I. How can I change, the way that I'm speaking to them, or maybe I should wear a different color shirt, or maybe I should take them outside and train them outside, or may maybe like I can trick them into, I would always go through these scenarios, and I remember a couple of clients. Yeah, I remember some. I'm picturing them in my head right now. Ones that would just make me toss and turn because it's,'cause fitness is something, it's like physical stress and the people that have mental stress from family or business. You're telling them, pay me number one, you gotta pay me. And then number two, you have to like deal. You're paying for stress. You're not paying me to be your friend or to massage you, or you're paying me to help you burn calories. So you're, it's like you're paying for torture. And I was always, was so perplexed by this, I was like. For me, I was like, who I couldn't see myself doing that. Of course, now, later years competing, I can see the value of coaching if it's done right with that right motivation. But I was always trying to motivate them in a way to where they really, like they got results and they had fun doing it. It wasn't like, when's the session over? But yeah, I remember that. I learned a lot in personal training because you learn people, you learn like psychology. What makes people tick, what resonates with people? How do you train someone who just had a divorce, is like, is in a workspace where the woman who, like her husband cheated on is in the workspace and she has to deal with that. And she lets it all out at this session. And you're also like, okay, I'll list, like I'm the one you can, share your burdens with, but then we also need to burn calories. And you're telling him, come on, do 10 more, do 10 more. But you're trying to say it in a soft voice so you don't trigger, something from this terrible experience she had. I remember this client one, one client specifically, and then like in the other side, it's a young guy who is like John, I need to have abs and I need them now. I need to have abs now. What he's saying is I want to be confident. I want to be out there. I wanna be able to meet, somebody that I love and I want to, I want to seal the deal kind of thing. I can read that, but he's saying, no, come on, I want to get abs. But then he's also going out and he's partying and he's drinking. For you, very important is social life. And you want that body to add as a component to the social life. Put some guidelines there and and then, and he, but if he wants to feel confident and empowered oh no John, let me take you out. It's on me. I'll take you out to the club. No. Okay. I remember all these characters and you learn how to deal with them and I've learned so much, from that.

Tom Jackobs: 6:31

What about you? You'd mentioned that you've had a lot of failures in business, so can you recant a few of those and why you think that you may have failed?

John Harper: 6:39

Yeah, like having a passion-based business I think if you aren't very inclined to numbers or details as I was in my past. it's an obvious thing that's gonna happen is that the business isn't gonna run well. And that's something I had to learn in my, in my later years and up till now and I'm still learning. Obviously I'm still learning. I used to open gyms, gym businesses, and gym businesses even to this day, I think most gym businesses are all passion-based businesses. There's a guy that's has a gym, a CrossFit gym near the office in Miami. And I walk by this gym every time I go to the gym that I go to, which is right next to it, which is a boxing gym.'cause boxing is my big passion. And that guy, I see him there every day. He has to. He has to wake up at six o'clock, open the door, welcome everyone in. He has to stay fit himself, and I look at that guy and I'm just, and he yells out, come on John, keep going. He's got this energy. He sends out to me and I send it back to him. Yeah, keep it up, brother. Just look at that guy and I'm just thinking not taking nothing away from awesome gentleman, like he's changing people's lives. It's great, but it really is tough on you because you everything, the, all the responsibilities on you and most importantly, how do you scale? You have the fixed cost, you've got rent, you've got staffing, right? What if you get sick? What if you can't show up? What if all your clients are like, oh, we don't like the new trainer. We want you back. And you're like, well, I'm trying to deal with a death in the family, or, I'm, I've got legal issues I need to deal with. There's so much pressure on you that it's something that I feel like fitness people we lay in bed and we always want to scale and we start off as a trainer. Or now it's like a fitness influencer. All this great feedback from clients. They say, oh, you're so awesome. You're such a great motivator. Oh, John, I really rely on you. You get all this great validation and then you go, you know what? I wanna open up a gym. I wanna do this times a hundred and that's and every fitness person I just want to have my own gym, I wanna make it exactly as I want, I wanna get the machines that I like, and if, and I remember telling myself when I would open the gym, I said, even if no one comes to the gym, I'll just use it for myself. I remember I would have this somehow thinking that the lights would stay on, the doors would stay open, I could just train there in my own little happy place. It doesn't really work like that. Like you have to be very selective about the equipment. You have to tailor the gym to females because if you get females, you get males by default. If you tailor the gym towards males, women are like no, this is not for me. So a male, you have to take this into account with your branding, soften it up. Don't crowd the gym with too much equipment that isn't used, or you don't get the ROI on that, that space. You're like why am I buying a calf machine? Only I use that. Like literally all 90% of the clients do not ask for it and don't use it. Why did I buy a calf machine? Probably could have used that, to buy like, to help, with the showers or the locker room, right? And those sort of things is I went into the gym business with that whole. I want this like a kid in a candy store. And at the end I started to realize oh yeah. Rent is overdue. Staff is asking when are they gonna get paid? I'm the one waking up at six in the morning to unlock the door and I'm tired.'cause I just finished my last session at 10 because some guy flew in from Dubai and is I want a session now. And then you start realizing like, oh, welcome to the business world. There's a place to have your passion, but you need to have that. You need to have discipline, you need to crunch up what makes sense. What is ROI, what is what makes sense on the, to make this last, we want to keep the doors open. I want to keep doing this. But it took a long time to learn that.

Tom Jackobs: 10:28

When I opened my gym and it was very similar to what you're exactly describing, so it must be something in our DNA that says, oh, we have to have that very specialized piece of equipment that we only, that we think everybody needs, but nobody really needs. Or like at what I did was I really spent a lot of money on the bathrooms and had really nice tile put down, and I was like, I'm renting this place and why am I putting all this money into things that people don't really pay attention. Like they might say, oh, That's a nice bathroom, but they don't care if it's gonna be, sandstone or marble or tile.

John Harper: 11:06

That's exactly right. That you really need to take a step back and be like. Is this my dream, my like my little happy place? Am I picturing the gym that is owned by like a group like 24 hours or Gold's Gym, where it's a completely different business model and they have a completely different like roadmap, different strategy. They have a board, they have a group, and it's just me and I'm saying I want my own Gold's gym. Whereas I'm like, well, maybe I cut my, the equipment spend in half. May, maybe I think about elevating personal training. Maybe I recruit personal trainers, work, work on that side of it. Then having this walk, people just walk in and trying to sell memberships. I remember one lady, one Brazilian lady, it was so funny. It was like, it was one of those, you slap in the face of the business world as I'm this young kid. In the gym. Look at what I made. Beautiful. Oh, customer walks in the door. Cus she comes in and I remember she tells me, she goes, John I only want to, I only want to use the treadmill. only wanna run. And I'm looking at like, all this equipment that I've bought, it's I only wanna use the treadmill. So do you have a membership option that's cheaper just for the treadmill? I remember thinking this is the customer, like feedback that's coming. And they, and I was like that didn't make no sense. If I go to Starbucks and I say, oh, like I'll provide my own water, can I just buy the coffee grind? I'm thinking to the lady like, I need this membership. How can I twist her brain? And I probably, I think I ended up just giving her a deal. And then of course, she didn't just use the treadmill, she walked off and used whatever she wants, but it was a good lesson class.

Tom Jackobs: 12:40

And so many purpose led and Heart-Led Business owners, I think go through that same thing because it's what we love and it's what keeps us going and we don't think about the customer as well. But let's shift gears now. So what got you into red light therapy and your current business?

John Harper: 12:56

So as a fitness professional, right? Going from training, master training, and then I started doing, like in the early days of I think it was called there, there was like video content back in like the P90X era. Where video content was becoming famous. So I went into that and I started doing a workout series. I then went into fitness AI through, through all of this, I I want to look the part, practice what you preach kind of thing. And it was like the little ego in my head saying hey, you're, you've got an edge because you are like, you're fit and most importantly you're competitive. So I competed throughout that whole time. Just to keep make sure that my profile was intact. Like I'm putting all this effort opening all these the, these gyms and people are like, oh they, I don't wanna be the guy that just gets lazy. I want to be, no. Oh, that's the guy. He's competing and he has a gym. It's a good, it's like a good way to, to get a sale or to get interest, to get exposure. So rugby was my main sport that I paid, played for quite a long time. Then two shoulder injuries and a left knee injury took me out of rugby. and I want, I wanted to, I was that yes, man, when you're a yes man, you just yes to everything. Yes. And I prided myself on being, I. I guess that was another ego thing, right? Like I just saying Yeah. Yes. To everything. And I remember a friend of mine a Dutch. A Dutch, yeah. He was a designer an architect. And He was like, he was exploring competing and boxing. And I remember flying in to see him. I remember we like went to Dubai together. It's the first time I've been to Dubai was with him. I remember just toying with the idea. I guess to just one up him. I was like, oh, I'm gonna do the competition. I'm gonna, I'm gonna box two. I'll be a boxer. And I just raced into this co this this fight. And I've, during, throughout all the gyms that I built, I always had an MMA side. I always had a boxing side, so I would always do the classes of the, of the coaches that I had. So I was fairly good. Like I wasn't, something to put on a screen. But I was, I wasn't a disaster. And I remember yeah, I jumped into this boxing session and then I won my first fight and then I was like, that's it. Heavyweight champion. Here I come and I got this idea like. That's it. All roads lead to John being a heavyweight champion and I got really into boxing and I liked boxing because you can see your opponent, there's, there is, there's obviously the guy's trying to take your head off, but with rugby, frustrating thing about it wasn't always the big boys. I. That would hurt me. It was the little guys that would trip me, that would catch me off guard. Like I'd be receiving a ball and I would go in and he would trip me and I would, my own weight was usually the thing that would create the injury. So there was a lot, there's a lot of uncertainty with rugby. It's very fast and you have to be nimble. And some of the smaller guys, they're very good at chopping down the big guys, at certain times when you're not looking. Whereas with boxing, you're like, I see the guy, I see his hands. I got an option I can defend, I can go back. It just seemed like a more, like it was working in my favor. I could manage the, the, I manage the stress of it best. But after fighting for, it was about four years, I started to get very severe headaches. Remember my wife getting very concerned she got me into to have a checkup and they found a tumor in my head. he said, he was saying like, I was like, how'd this tumor happen? He said, have you ever been in a car accident? I was like, no, this, have you ever had a very serious fall? Have, is it and then the, I said, well, I, I'm boxing. And he said, well, yeah don't box.'cause that's creating trauma in your head. And it's created this tumor. And the tumor was about the size of my thumb. It was about that big. And he said, you have 11 months to plan this surgery. Or the tumor is gonna grow into your brain, which is gonna be very dangerous for you. You potentially could die if it grows too deep, but also be very hard to use this microsurgery to get it out. It'd be very difficult to take it out, the full piece. I down a bit like my wife and I now, we're very much into the way of the dao this ying and yang, and she's very like her frequency's very mellow. We play off well with each other. Like I kick the door down, I get the deal, and she does like the contract. So it, it's worked well. But I started, I needed to adopt this more a more collected way of behaving or else obviously my, my health and potentially my life could be at risk. So that's where I deloaded a lot and with her bless her heart, she actually was the one that introduced me into red light therapy for these injuries. So even for injuries, as I was recovering and, injuries would flare up throughout this whole time. She would push me onto red light therapy and I remember she bought this lamp for me and it was this lamp that is still quite common in medical, like in, in some hospitals I've seen the lamp. It maybe is it's been, it's been colored white, it like has a nice finish on it, but it's still the same design. The same same technology, but it's not so user friendly. It's it's as a lamp you would imagine, has a very large weighted base, you have to like wiggle it around the house, and I remember she would, she'd say, aim at the pain 20 minutes before bed. And the bulb was this, it was a red bulb that would get very hot. I was like, okay, red eye therapy. I remember in the beginning thinking, know it's like Feng Shui medicine, like I'll just do it to appease her. And I remember the heat of the lamp. It would get so hot that I would play this dance game where like the injury, I'd move it and I'd have the heat and I'd, oh, okay, it's too hot. I'd go up and down. And try to get,'cause I thought the heat is what it is.'cause my wife being Chinese Asians believe in heat therapy. Whereas in the west we use cold therapy to for inflammation. Yeah. And I. I, and I remember the aha moment was my left knee. That was when I was like, what? This it really triggered a very an interest in red light therapy because I remember getting very serious about my knee doing this treatments 20 minutes a day. After about a week, I didn't have pain in my knee. And the knee was something that was always painful. I would sit in a car, like in a taxi or in a, in a plane. And if I had my knee at a 45 degree angle. It would always hurt. It would get re, it would unbearably painful. Like I would try to, I would push my leg into the car seat or the seat in front of me, just try to stretch it out. And I would have this like heat cream and I would massage my knee because it would just get so painful. Just being in this position. I remember after a week it didn't, I didn't have that. And then I remember after about another week, we just. I just stopped using it on my knee. I was like, we're done. I, we don't need, I don't need this anymore. And since then, my knees have ne that knee has never acted up. Never. Funny, like I, there's so many times when it was such a, it was it was something I dealt with for years that I just thought, that's me. It's my knee. Like I've got that bad knee. I'm gonna be like, those old uncles that are like, oh my back. I just thought that was it. And then fast forward 6, 6, 7 years. We, I started development. It took about three years to develop the first Lumaflex version, and we are coming up to our anniversary in 10 days. 10 days from today is our anniversary when we launched in Miami.

Tom Jackobs: 20:33

Oh wow.

John Harper: 20:34

Yes!,

Tom Jackobs: 20:35

How many years?

John Harper: 20:36

That's two years launched and almost three years in development.

Tom Jackobs: 20:40

Wow. That's amazing. And so the red light therapy, like obviously for those three years, that's really passion based, right? Because you're not selling anything at that point. What kept you going other than the passion for, building something, a technology that's gonna really help people?

John Harper: 20:57

It's this motivation and you're visualizing in the future creating something cool.'cause my wife has asked me this a lot, she's what's your, what's your, you, everyone has their thing. What is it? It's like child trauma or is it like, are you in a race or do you want to beat, your childhood friend? Is it like this friendly competition? Is it like your brothers? And for me, it's this thing where like I've always had this thing inside me where I was like, I always saw myself as doing something very impactful, like creating something and having this legacy. I did that. Like I, this legacy thing. And I think it was, and a lot of that, those feelings, especially, when you're at night and it's the end of the day and you've done some development work and you just let your mind wander and you visualize what's coming. That would, I am, I dunno what it is, but I get really excited about that. If something starts to go the right way, I immediately create the story in my head of what's coming, of what's happening. That's very much and then the next day I'm like, out of bed and I try to action that scenario that I pictured out.

Tom Jackobs: 21:58

I'm sure if you were only motivated by the profit and building just a business or profit, that probably would not have happened.

John Harper: 22:06

Yeah, I just, I think because I'm so bad with numbers and I have wonderful, trusted people to take care of the numbers, I don't know what it what it means. Like when someone back in the day, like the, oh, this could mean, your company could go IPO. I was like, well, what would really change? I'm not gonna go buy a jet or a car that is like a fancy car. I don't really have it it's not really I don't under equate, I don't know what I would do with it. I'm not picturing myself in that. I'm more picturing myself like giving a speech. Or and everybody clapping. It's that's the well done, John. You did good kind of thing. That's what I see when I'm driving. I remember a friend of mine, he had a really nice Porsche and he like, let me, he was like, here, borrow it. Take the wife on a weekend. Go to the beach. And I remember after the weekend I was bored with it. I was like, what do we, what is what happens now with it? I didn't I was like, I don't, I didn't know what was next. I was like. Is there something supposed to happen? There's something like, I'm over that. I don't, I'm okay. And he was like, do you wanna barrow it again? I was like, nah, it's, nah. You can't fit anything in it. It's too small. That's crazy.

Tom Jackobs: 23:13

So you mentioned that you have that you're not very good with numbers, but you have good, trusted staff around you. Is that like one of your big pieces of advice for other purpose led and Heart-Led Business owners is if they're not good at the numbers that either get good at it or get some people around you that are good at it?

John Harper: 23:31

100%. Yeah I'm very much a team person. I've noticed that about me. Like the funnest thing I like to do is build team. Then build a company, then build a product. But the a team thing is very much inside me. Like I always want a team and we all have like our team meetings, we all pump each other up and we're all like learning from each other. I empower them. They respect me and have this back and forth thing. I, I hire all definitely hire people that are smarter than you. Definitely. Definitely. Like without a shadow of a doubt. And then if you make them. And they don't have anything to worry about. I'm like, I'm not in this for, to scam anyone. Certainly not you. At the end of the day, love and connection is what is the most valuable thing for people? It's part of, it's definitely a human need. So if people have that and they have comradery in the workspace you can get incredible things done. Like in the, just this week, there's some days where everybody is just keep going. When you have that. And everyone leaves the office. And then what you do is at the end of the year or the end of the quarter you take everyone on a team. Like I love doing that team building events where you go to the beach, you go out some nice food, and then you gave like a like a certificate, like best'cause we, I'll ask everyone in the whole team, I'll say pick somebody who you nominate is has done the best in the year. So they all pick and we just see who's, who has the most names. So it's like we as a team, we all decide, and then he gets to go up and stand on stage and get this little award. And once he's done that his output is like, is more than double. He just can crash that. And then you're like he's he's, it's so validating to have that. That he's not thinking how can I use this to my advantage? He doesn't think this, he's got, we're just like, no, I wanna do that again. I wanna just outperform myself and do it again. So it's, I think like psychology definitely plays a lot into it. Being humble. Humble is a, is an important thing.

Tom Jackobs: 25:31

That's interesting. I hadn't heard that first in terms of building the team first and then building the business around the team. And it totally makes sense because then you have the firm culture and you don't have to go through the trial and error with people that aren't a culture fit. And it sounds like you're finding people that are motivated by that achievement and not. Necessarily motivated by the money aspect. And so they, when you give the rewards and the accolades that they're like, Yes. This is exactly what I want. And the money's a good thing. And I mean, it's a nice bonus, but it's that achievement, that certainty, that connection and that love that really keeps'em going.

John Harper: 26:09

Even people that ah If people are driven, they have a passion that to do. It's very difficult to find those people. And everyone who has that will have down days. They'll say, we had a problem in the family. I'm now responsible. I need to cover this cost. Or they'll have financial issues. Everyone has these financial issues and so you have to expect that as well. So it's like, as long as they know, like all I gotta do is show up and do the best thing I can and I'm gonna be okay. Everyone will have these sort of fluctuating points. It's very hard to have a group of people all in it for the, come over here to change the world. It's yeah just wait until like you get a knock on your door and you're like you got a problem. And then it's okay, sorry. I don't think I can show up. That's what I told you.

Tom Jackobs: 26:52

And when you're hiring the right people based on your purpose and aligned values, that it's easier like for them to show up and show up as fully as they can. And if you do have you give them grace for as much time as you need, and I love that. It's great.

John Harper: 27:07

Yeah. Like I've always thought about like businesses that say I mean, I can't think of one in particular, and of course I don't wanna shoot myself in the foot, but like some business that is not necessarily an honorable business. If it's selling like an insurance policy, which doesn't favor the person, that you know it, I was always wondering like, how do you, because for me, if someone is in it for just the money i'm like in the business that we're in with the testimonials that we're getting these pe it's a very powerful thing. Every human out there, they'll start to shift over to be like, wow, I like this feeling of being part of this company that's doing this nice change. But if you have a company where you're not actually doing that. It's hard to shift people.'Cause I do pride myself. Like I say, Ooh, I know, all you're thinking about is clocking in, clocking out. And I'm like, just watch. Wait, I'll gimme two weeks and I'll I start like planting seeds,

Tom Jackobs: 28:03

I love it.

John Harper: 28:04

Yeah.

Tom Jackobs: 28:05

That's great. In a profit led business, all you have to go by then is the cash. And I think about Wolf of Wall Street, the boiler room type of operations where they're just dialing for dollars and it's like this grind, but all you can give them is more money more money to make them happy. There's no purpose necessarily behind it. Love that, John. I can't believe that our time has gone by so quickly. So how can people learn more about Lumaflex and you and all the great stuff that you're doing?

John Harper: 28:33

lumaflex.com. Luma light and flex as in flexible. We've recently won our ninth award, so we're, we've got more awards than any other red light therapy company and we're nominated for the 10th. I wanted to close the year with a number 10 award. We're flexible panel. I've got one right here. This is my personal one, And I wanted it to be like an on the go red light therapy device just in your bag. Use on the go anytime. I don't take anything away from big devices. They have their use case, their location fixed. This is the one you take with you wherever you're going. And then for me personally, John Graham Fitness at, on my is, usually for a lot of comms like I do a lot of influencer communication there. A lot of people will reach out there and then we move to email or something. So feel free to reach out, say hi, and say, yeah. Tell us about your Heart-Led Business. When are you starting?

Tom Jackobs: 29:34

I'm geeking out here a little bit on the red light. Is that both at the, like the six 30 and the infra near infrared as well?

John Harper: 29:40

Yeah. 6 38 50 nanometers for the Essential and the Body Pro exactly the same in terms of treatment. This is for in-clinic use. Essential is the take home retail one. So this one as it's IP six seven with a spare battery. The goal my North Star is to actually introduce it into the military to have it as a device. So I need like a very durable, portable pressure tested environment tested, something that's I'm shooting for, let's see what happen.

Tom Jackobs: 30:09

Awesome. Well, good luck on that. Cool. Well, John, Thank you again so much. for spending your time with us and I certainly appreciate it. I know our audience appreciates it as well.

John Harper: 30:17

Thank you so much. Yeah. I appreciate the opportunity to share lots of mistakes. It's gotta go somewhere. Don't make those same mistakes or do learn from it and enjoy it.

Tom Jackobs: 30:27

I like to learn from others. You know that's easier.

John Harper: 30:29

That's it. Well said. Yeah, that's, right.

Tom Jackobs: 30:32

Awesome. And thank you listeners for watching and listening to the show today, but we really do appreciate it. So make sure you're checking out everything that John is doing. We're gonna link all that up into the show notes, so make sure you're going down there and checking it out. And while you're down there in the show notes, I think there's a review button somewhere around there. So if you could do me a favor and give the show a rating and review. If it's less than five stars, tell me first, but it's five stars. Go ahead. I really appreciate. And until next time, lead with your heart.

Speaker 2: 31:04

You've been listening to The Heart-Led Business Show, hosted by Tom Jackobs. Join us next time for another inspiring journey into the heart of business.