Speaker: 0:01

Welcome to the Heart Led Business Show, where compassion meets commerce and leaders lead with love. Join your host, Tom Jackobs, as he delves into the insightful conversations with visionary business leaders who defy the status quo, putting humanity first and profit second. From heartfelt strategies to inspiring stories, this podcast is your compass in the world of conscious capitalism. So buckle up and let's go. Let your heart guide your business journey.

Tom: 0:36

Brace yourself for a delightful dive Down the rabbit hole with our honcho, Liz Shuler. Liz turns trauma into triumph, making Mary with the mind body miracles on her quest to convert professionals from simply surviving, to supremely thriving. So buckle up for a brain- tickling ride into the realm of psychedelic integration yoga therapy on the Heart Led Business Show, where shadow meets light and business meets the beat of the heart. Liz, welcome to the show.

Liz Schuler: 1:12

Hi, good to be here. That was a wonderful introduction.

Tom: 1:17

I love to take credit for writing

Liz Schuler: 1:19

that

Tom: 1:19

but with the advent of AI, it does it for me. with, with a good creative course. Liz, I always like to ask, off what's your definition of a heart led business?

Liz Shuler: 1:31

The simple answer for me be that a heart led business, you know, is aligned with your core values But want go a deeper because we know now with science and ancient wisdom that of kind the come together that we have brains in our hearts and our guts. So they, they're are neurons. In around, all our heart and of in our intestines and our stomachs. And those little brains communicate this this brain more this brain communicates those brains. right. Yeah, it's really cool. And so knowing this it's a heart led business A businesss that is led from that knowing that felt sense, that gut feeling that following your following your your heart, that comes from literally those little brains communicatiing with our thinking brain and our cognitive functions. So it's a really literally an alignment between our heart, our gut, and what we call our our brain.

Tom: 2:44

That's a new take a definition heart led business. And I, I really appreciate mean, I, I didn't had little brain in our heart. I you know, in our gut, I had a

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 2:56

um,

Tom: 2:56

functional medicine doc on here and,

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 2:59

uh,

Tom: 2:59

he was explaining you have gut feeling, but if your gut isn't in, you know, the proper, you and you have gut not always is your gut instinct, really there.

Liz Schuler: 3:16

Yeah, The, the gut microbiome has has a huge impact on all of

Liz Shuler: 3:21

that,

Liz Schuler: 3:21

with our our heart our

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 3:23

Yeah.

Liz Schuler: 3:24

a lot of a When we talk about

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 3:27

heart

Liz Shuler: 3:28

and

Liz Schuler: 3:28

of love

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 3:30

and connection that

Liz Schuler: 3:30

that we have for other, that comes from that little, that's just sort around the heart.

Tom: 3:36

very cool. So what

Liz Shuler: 3:38

inspired

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 3:38

you then to start a heart led So

Liz Shuler: 3:42

I've worked in the mental health field for 14 years. more now actually, probably.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 3:48

and

Liz Shuler: 3:50

it was something that I went into because I wanted to help people. because I face my own challenges and I wanted to

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 3:57

people find their way

Liz Shuler: 3:59

in a similar way that I found my way.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 4:03

And what I

Liz Shuler: 4:03

I realized,

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 4:05

worked in residential treatment for adolescents, I've worked in schools,

Liz Shuler: 4:09

I've worked in private practices,

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 4:12

and

Liz Shuler: 4:12

all of them have this

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 4:15

overarching

Liz Shuler: 4:16

system

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 4:17

that is the medical model that is the mental

Liz Shuler: 4:20

health system.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 4:22

that at some

Liz Shuler: 4:23

point makes you

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 4:26

let go of a

Liz Shuler: 4:28

a lot of that heart and gut

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 4:30

and flow into their

Liz Shuler: 4:32

system.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 4:33

You have to

Liz Shuler: 4:34

to diagnose,

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 4:36

have to do treatment

Liz Shuler: 4:38

plans, You have to

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 4:39

out what's wrong with people,

Liz Shuler: 4:41

And that never felt good to me. right? And so I kept jumping,

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 4:46

Like, okay, residential treatment. They tried to, you know, pull me

Liz Shuler: 4:51

me away from that. Heart led piece.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 4:54

So let's move into

Liz Shuler: 4:56

private practice.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 4:57

I still have

Liz Shuler: 4:58

have to work with insurance companies,

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 5:00

and

Liz Shuler: 5:00

that right doesn't feel right either. So let's try schools.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 5:05

But

Liz Shuler: 5:06

then there's, that,

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 5:07

still that overarching

Liz Shuler: 5:09

idea of figure out what's wrong.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 5:11

Fix the kids, right? Do something to

Liz Shuler: 5:14

to make them better. When I know in my heart that there's nothing wrong with them, it's just that we need to find a different way to deal with our environment, to deal with the things that are going on with us. And so the

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 5:29

further I went into this

Liz Shuler: 5:31

system, the more I was losing that knowing and that feeling of being heart led and understanding who I was and where I was and the less good I was doing for the people I was working with. I decided

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 5:48

when my partner wanted to go back

Liz Shuler: 5:50

back to school

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 5:52

that I

Liz Shuler: 5:52

I was going to try something different. And that meant letting go

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 5:58

lot of the mental

Liz Shuler: 5:59

health system. So that's where I'm in the middle of right now.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 6:05

So tell me a little bit your, your current business then. And so if you're not taking insurance, then obviously it's cash pay. So how does that, how do you uh, with that?

Liz Shuler: 6:15

Right, So what I'm doing right now is starting to move away from therapy altogether.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 6:22

So I am licensed currently, and eventually I will

Liz Shuler: 6:27

will let that go, But I'm moving more into the holistic healing, and into the coaching, things

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 6:36

don't

Liz Shuler: 6:36

need a diagnosis. I don't have to think about what the insurance companies are going to say.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 6:44

don't have to worry

Liz Shuler: 6:45

about, A diagnosis or treatment plan. it can be with the person in front of me. and I don't have to worry about

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 6:53

evidence based treatment, which for most insurance companies is mostly like CBT and very strict manualized things. And you can get away with some of the other

Liz Shuler: 7:07

stuff, but to then you have to document it in a very specific way. And it just gets so messy. So, what I'm doing now is a coaching business. is

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 7:20

Technically, what my business plan says, but it's more a holistic

Liz Shuler: 7:24

healing

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 7:26

practice where I use psychedelics.

Liz Shuler: 7:29

Yoga,

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 7:30

things like Reiki and shadow work to help people really get

Liz Shuler: 7:34

get into that

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 7:36

deep healing.

Liz Shuler: 7:38

That

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 7:38

talk therapy or, any of these manualized

Liz Shuler: 7:43

treatments just don't get to.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 7:47

That's really interesting. And a lot of the holistic health practitioners you know, I talk to on a regular basis really struggle with that insurance model, especially in the States. And it doesn't seem right that. An insurance company that has absolutely nothing to do with medicine is dictating how a doctor or how a therapist should practice. So I commend you for getting outside that and finding a way and, you know, a lot of them are going to that health coach type of, you know, they're not diagnosing, they're not prescribing, it's it's doing people a lot better because of it.

Liz Shuler: 8:28

And the medical

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 8:29

is very, focused on sick

Liz Shuler: 8:31

care.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 8:32

And it's again, about what's wrong with

Liz Shuler: 8:34

you,

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 8:35

not about what you have inside the healing

Liz Shuler: 8:39

potential that you have,

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 8:41

and who

Liz Shuler: 8:42

you can be. It's about managing symptoms rather than becoming who you are supposed to be.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 8:50

Yeah. I mean, It's like a lot of high performers want to get that edge. And a lot you know, I just think about this TV show, billionaires. I don't know if you ever saw that, but they, they have a psychiatrist on staff for these traders and in a hedge fund and her whole goal was to get them to perform higher know, you There's nothing wrong with these mean, Some of them, there were some things wrong in the characters, but in a, in a business setting, if I want to go 2% higher, you know, get know, that productive edge. What's the diagnosis?

Liz Shuler: 9:31

Right.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 9:31

Isn't it? There is no right. It's like Tom wants more and I don't think an insurance company would pay for 20 sessions with a therapist to get me 2% better or what have you.

Liz Shuler: 9:44

And

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 9:44

get

Liz Shuler: 9:44

around

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 9:45

I think some people

Liz Shuler: 9:46

people have used things like adjustment disorder

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 9:51

or some of the, you

Liz Shuler: 9:52

less problematic labels to

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 9:55

get

Liz Shuler: 9:55

people

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 9:56

the healing that they need. know, Giving

Liz Shuler: 9:59

them a label that could follow them for the rest of their lives.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 10:04

But even when you're having those

Liz Shuler: 10:08

profound symptoms of, being depressed or

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 10:11

having anxiety, in my view,

Liz Shuler: 10:16

after everything I've seen in the mental health industry, it's just not real.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 10:22

just being a human. It's dealing with what's happening in

Liz Shuler: 10:27

in our lives,

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 10:28

and maybe not knowing how to deal with what's happening in our lives. And

Liz Shuler: 10:34

the DSM diagnosis,

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 10:36

calling it a

Liz Shuler: 10:37

a disease,

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 10:38

I think has been helpful in one way for stigma,

Liz Shuler: 10:42

but in other ways, it's

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 10:45

this false dichotomy

Liz Shuler: 10:46

of

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 10:47

people who are mentally ill And people who aren't. Right. And that's just not true. Even

Liz Shuler: 10:53

the people who created the DSM.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 10:56

I've said you know, it's just made up. Oh

Liz Shuler: 10:59

Yep.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 11:02

Is it DSM four now? Or is it DSM

Liz Shuler: 11:05

I

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 11:06

actually fifth revised. Oh, wow. Keep changing her mind. That's mental health, right? So let's dig in then to the business side. So going outside of insurance for a lot of practitioners is very scary now people are conditioned that. I have a condition, so insurance should pay for it. So how do you design a business that still you're leading with your heart, but you're able to, you know, live indoors and eat

Liz Shuler: 11:40

Yeah, and that's always the balance, right? And it's really difficult, even for therapists who take insurance, to help people understand

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 11:50

why they charge what they

Liz Shuler: 11:51

charge.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 11:53

so, moving

Liz Shuler: 11:54

out of that,

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 11:56

gives a little bit

Liz Shuler: 11:57

more freedom,

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 11:58

because you have to understand in the therapy world, there are certain

Liz Shuler: 12:03

parameters that you have to fit into. There's a box,

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 12:07

and that is a legally defined

Liz Shuler: 12:09

box. Uh, So stepping out of that

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 12:12

means you can lose

Liz Shuler: 12:14

your license, means you can be criminally prosecuted in some states um, but there's also a

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 12:22

lack of accountability, because A lot of therapists do those things, get a slap on the

Liz Shuler: 12:27

the wrist, and then

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 12:28

go to a

Liz Shuler: 12:29

a different state

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 12:30

and have a

Liz Shuler: 12:32

a different life. So It's, really

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 12:34

it's like this box

Liz Shuler: 12:35

that if you are

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 12:36

ethical practitioner, you feel scared to come out

Liz Shuler: 12:39

of. But

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 12:41

a lot of the unethical practitioners

Liz Shuler: 12:43

just do whatever they want and don't have a lot of consequences.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 12:49

So

Liz Shuler: 12:50

talking about fees and talking about money, Is one of those things that's in the box

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 12:56

that

Liz Shuler: 12:57

people

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 12:59

are you know,

Liz Shuler: 13:00

you are there to serve. And it almost becomes a martyr complex,

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 13:06

you're supposed to help these people, even

Liz Shuler: 13:08

if you're not doing. Okay.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 13:10

And

Liz Shuler: 13:12

I don't ascribe to that, because I can't help you

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 13:16

if I'm a mess. Right? Being more transparent

Liz Shuler: 13:20

about that.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 13:21

my

Liz Shuler: 13:21

fees and what I'm charging and why I'm charging is part of the way that I am combating that. So I charge right now 200 euro per hour

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 13:35

and I have

Liz Shuler: 13:37

packages that have discounts. So the more sessions you buy with me,

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 13:42

the less it is per

Liz Shuler: 13:43

hour, basically. So I try to keep it

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 13:48

a little bit affordable

Liz Shuler: 13:49

that way.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 13:50

But you have to also remember

Liz Shuler: 13:52

that

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 13:52

I'm only being

Liz Shuler: 13:53

paid for the time that we are face to face.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 13:55

Right.

Liz Shuler: 13:56

But that's not all the work that I do.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 13:58

Exactly.

Liz Shuler: 13:59

I am preparing for our sessions. I am taking a lot of

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 14:04

continuing education. I am looking for resources. I am making sure that if something that you said to me, I

Liz Shuler: 14:13

don't know anything about, that I'm gonna go research that.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 14:16

So there's at

Liz Shuler: 14:17

least an hour. outside of the face to face hour

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 14:22

that I'm doing

Liz Shuler: 14:22

work for you.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 14:24

And then I have all the other business stuff I have to run. Right. That

Liz Shuler: 14:28

That I don't, and I don't get paid for any of it. I'm only getting paid for that one hour face to face. So

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 14:35

200 euro an hour

Liz Shuler: 14:36

seems like a lot,

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 14:38

but when you think about, you know, The two or

Liz Shuler: 14:40

or three hours of work that has to go out behind the scenes.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 14:44

Yeah.

Liz Shuler: 14:44

It's, Maybe 50?

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 14:46

then, And then

Liz Shuler: 14:47

then there's all the taxes and all the other things that you have to pay.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 14:50

Yeah. Yeah. Well, That's interesting.

Liz Shuler: 14:52

Just trying to be, Yeah. transparent.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 14:55

Yeah. Absolutely. It went when I uh, doing fitness. So that was kind of the model as know, buy 10 sessions and I'll give you the 11th for free and, or by 50 sessions and the rate goes lower. Eventually what I was finding is know, that time for money was just not working and it wasn't serving the clients and it wasn't serving me or the trainers as well. So eventually we went to a membership model that allowed clients to come in up to three or four times or sometimes unlimited times for their workout. they were just charged a monthly fee. or a yearly fee. And they knew exactly what that was. They could budget it and all that. And a lot of practitioners that I've been talking to go to that, like that package. It's going to be 5, 000 for the year, period, end of story. No nickel and dime, no like counting sessions. It's, you're going to get what need to to get better. And I think, I mean, that's a shift, obviously, from, you know, a lot of, Practitioners going fee for service know, per hour. But what do you think about that? Do you a, a way that you could change or not?

Liz Shuler: 16:14

Yeah,

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 16:14

that that's something that down the

Liz Shuler: 16:16

the line, as I'm

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 16:19

moving toward

Liz Shuler: 16:21

trying

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 16:22

create more opportunities for affordable services. that I am thinking about. Yeah. Right

Liz Shuler: 16:30

now,

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 16:31

my business is probably less than a

Liz Shuler: 16:35

a year old at this point

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 16:36

uh, I'm

Liz Shuler: 16:37

In the ground floor. and trying to build some things. I, do also think that things like courses,

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 16:46

I

Liz Shuler: 16:46

I know that they, have a bad rap

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 16:48

people are scammy

Liz Shuler: 16:49

and

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 16:50

whatever, but having courses that are like yoga therapy courses. or courses that help

Liz Shuler: 16:57

people integrate

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 16:59

psychedelic experiences with a lot of the same tools that we can use face to face. it's not as powerful Because you're not

Liz Shuler: 17:07

having that relational connection that I really feel is healing, but it allows me to

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 17:14

put a whole

Liz Shuler: 17:14

bunch of work up front

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 17:16

and then you pay you know, 300 euro for a course

Liz Shuler: 17:22

that you have for the rest of your life.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 17:24

And I

Liz Shuler: 17:25

I get

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 17:25

help people that couldn't afford

Liz Shuler: 17:27

working with me individually.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 17:29

Yeah. So I'm doing that

Liz Shuler: 17:30

now.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 17:32

That's great. And eventually, I think, once I have a client base built

Liz Shuler: 17:36

up,

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 17:37

I'll probably move to more of like a membership model or something that's, you know,

Liz Shuler: 17:41

more affordable and feels, I don't know, more expansive,

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 17:48

yeah. That's good. And, you know, I've, I've certainly done the course creation as well, because what I was finding is I was saying the same thing to every client. And at that point, I you know, let me just record this. And then,

Liz Shuler: 18:02

Mhm.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 18:03

you're going to have these issues coming up, go to lesson one, five and eight. deal with you know, you know, and then during our session and maybe now it's it's every other week. Now we can have a chat about what you learned from the course. And I, And I see a lot of people shifting to that and does, does people a lot of good as well it's one, not as expensive or I should say more affordable for some people. Um, And then it, but it gives you the same of of help and support that, that you need. Right.

Liz Shuler: 18:37

Yeah. And again, it gives you that foundation, like you're talking

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 18:43

The things

Liz Shuler: 18:43

that you're going tell

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 18:44

everybody, you might as

Liz Shuler: 18:46

as well give to people so that they can start there. And then when you

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 18:51

to work with me, we do some of that deeper

Liz Shuler: 18:53

or higher level work.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 18:54

Yeah, cool. So obviously let's talk a little bit about psychedelics because um, really intriguing. It's obviously coming up more and more uh, in the States and I know in Europe And, And just why don't you tell our listeners where you are right now, because I think it's fascinating.

Liz Shuler: 19:12

I am currently in Kortrijk, Belgium.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 19:15

Belgium.

Liz Shuler: 19:17

Yeah.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 19:17

Love Belgium. And I love Belgian beer. Yes, it's the best

Liz Shuler: 19:21

the best beer in the world.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 19:23

So many different varieties as well. that's, That's that's very cool. And are you practicing with people in the States as well? um, just

Liz Shuler: 19:33

Yeah,

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 19:34

I have a small in person practice here, Where we, I actually have a really nice, um, Nature path right close to

Liz Shuler: 19:42

to my house.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 19:42

Oh, nice. And

Liz Shuler: 19:43

and we do

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 19:43

and talk

Liz Shuler: 19:44

sessions. um,

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 19:45

is really

Liz Shuler: 19:46

nice

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 19:46

being out in

Liz Shuler: 19:47

in nature is one of those healing things, especially for integrating psychedelics, where you're feeling that big expansive connection to everything. It really helps bring everything back together. But then I also do a lot of online sessions for anybody around the world.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 20:06

Cool. So what what a normal, or I shouldn't say normal, typical might look like. I had to say that. Oh, that's really difficult. No, the, what the um, therapy would be like psychedelic, and then post uh, psychedelic. yeah, so again, I think it's going to

Liz Shuler: 20:25

differ a little bit based on substance. and it's going to differ a little bit based on

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 20:32

what sort of

Liz Shuler: 20:34

are you going to have a trip

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 20:34

Are you going to do a ceremony? Are you going

Liz Shuler: 20:37

going

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 20:37

you know, have a group retreat where you're

Liz Shuler: 20:40

you're taking the medicine? So most of the time

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 20:43

I do prep sessions. and that means that I am working with you to

Liz Shuler: 20:48

you to figure out

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 20:49

what substance is going to work for

Liz Shuler: 20:50

for you,

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 20:51

how you're going to do that safely.

Liz Shuler: 20:53

So we're going to

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 20:54

up with a plan of

Liz Shuler: 20:56

how you're going to do that dosing session. Are you going to take it with, you

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 21:00

your wife or partner sitting next to you? are

Liz Shuler: 21:04

are

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 21:04

going to be in a

Liz Shuler: 21:05

a retreat setting?

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 21:07

And we'll come up

Liz Shuler: 21:08

up with a plan for whatever it is that you're going to be doing.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 21:11

uh, do people do this by themselves ever, or do you recommend not doing it by yourself? When you say by

Liz Shuler: 21:18

yourself,

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 21:20

yes,

Liz Shuler: 21:22

but

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 21:22

I don't recommend

Liz Shuler: 21:24

that.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 21:24

Yeah. Um, I don't think anybody in the space recommends taking a substance and

Liz Shuler: 21:29

and being completely alone.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 21:31

Um, I don't think you

Liz Shuler: 21:32

need always, like, a trained guide.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 21:36

You can have somebody who is there,

Liz Shuler: 21:40

who you have a plan with.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 21:43

And who, you something happens. Can get you to safety or do whatever needs to

Liz Shuler: 21:47

to happen.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 21:48

Oh, that's cool. I was a trip sitter in college once and I didn't know that's what it was called, but my two roommates wanted to drop acid and I was like I'll, I'll watch you guys. And it was wild. Yup. Yup. Yeah. So just having someone there who's sober

Liz Shuler: 22:06

to

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 22:06

you from doing stupid things or Yeah. yeah,

Liz Shuler: 22:11

Right.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 22:12

psychedelics really, really safe. And

Liz Shuler: 22:15

and if you've done the prep work you've,

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 22:17

know, made sure that you're

Liz Shuler: 22:18

you're physically

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 22:20

safe to take the substance that you're

Liz Shuler: 22:21

you're working with. Yeah.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 22:26

people would, might take? Oh, there's so many. So I

Liz Shuler: 22:30

I think the most common would be psilocybin. LSD.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 22:37

Yep. Or magic truffles. Oh. In the

Liz Shuler: 22:40

the Netherlands it's just the

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 22:42

little underground bits of the mushroom. Oh, okay. It's technically a

Liz Shuler: 22:46

a different plant.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 22:47

Oh, interesting. Legally. Legally

Liz Shuler: 22:50

Not yeah.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 22:52

So psilocybin,

Liz Shuler: 22:53

LSD, DMT, I Can't ever remember the chemical name,

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 23:03

But it's basically the active

Liz Shuler: 23:06

ingredient in ayahuasca.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 23:07

Oh, okay. All right. Cool. We also have DMT, endogenous, in our bodies and brains. Oh, really?

Liz Shuler: 23:15

hmm. Yeah, so that's pretty cool.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 23:19

Where was I? DMT, Mescaline,

Liz Shuler: 23:23

uh, which is, peyote. We

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 23:26

Dead

Liz Shuler: 23:27

ayahuasca, and ketamine.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 23:29

Oh, kind of the five common

Liz Shuler: 23:31

ones. So

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 23:35

get them all prepped up so they like, what they should take, they get their body ready, they have somebody kind of watching over them as well, and so then they the the medication, and then what, and everybody's going to be a little bit different, right? That's kind of the whole idea. What's then the integration So, I think that's really the fascinating thing for me. The

Liz Shuler: 23:57

the integration afterwards

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 23:59

is

Liz Shuler: 24:00

explaining and processing your experiences.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 24:03

Because some people are going to

Liz Shuler: 24:05

going to have, Alien experiences, There's experiences with angels,

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 24:11

experiences of

Liz Shuler: 24:12

of the spirit of the plant. Some people are

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 24:15

going to feel like they

Liz Shuler: 24:16

they died, right?

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 24:19

Complete ego death. So there can be some really challenging experiences and you want to be able to process

Liz Shuler: 24:25

those and just share them. first of all.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 24:29

Yeah. And to somebody who's

Liz Shuler: 24:31

who's not going to be

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 24:32

you're Oh, right. A professional. yeah. Or, Or at least somebody knows that that's normal

Liz Shuler: 24:38

for what you've went through.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 24:41

And then you're going to try and make meaning out of

Liz Shuler: 24:43

of that.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 24:44

What does that mean to

Liz Shuler: 24:45

to you?

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 24:46

If you were to take a

Liz Shuler: 24:47

a message from that, what would that be?

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 24:50

And then

Liz Shuler: 24:50

then whatever that

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 24:51

is, that meaning, we're going to create

Liz Shuler: 24:54

practices

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 24:55

and habits and make changes in your

Liz Shuler: 24:57

your life

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 24:59

to really support that meaning get you to the place

Liz Shuler: 25:05

that the medicine wanted you to go.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 25:07

Interesting. Is it that the medicine is just opening up pathways in our brain that just have either been dormant or are subconscious and just bringing that up to the surface? Things that we've maybe repressed and just not

Liz Shuler: 25:24

so really interesting because there are some

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 25:28

physical things we

Liz Shuler: 25:29

we can see. So for

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 25:31

a lot of the like, psilocybin, LSD, the tryptamines, they are really new

Liz Shuler: 25:39

new neurons in your brain and opening up

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 25:44

the neurogen, or the plasticity in our

Liz Shuler: 25:48

our brain so that it's really easy to change those pathways.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 25:52

So if you've ever tried to do something different, right, have a

Liz Shuler: 25:54

have a habit,

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 25:55

you try and

Liz Shuler: 25:56

and break it, it's difficult.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 25:58

Right. When you take psychedelics, It makes

Liz Shuler: 26:02

that

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 26:03

a hundred times

Liz Shuler: 26:04

easier,

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 26:05

Because your brain is so willing to create those new pathways, change those

Liz Shuler: 26:09

those pathways.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 26:12

But that's not the only thing that

Liz Shuler: 26:14

that happens.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 26:15

We have those

Liz Shuler: 26:16

those mystical experiences

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 26:18

that, for most

Liz Shuler: 26:21

people,

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 26:22

are the real catalyst for whatever changes they

Liz Shuler: 26:25

they make afterwards.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 26:27

Okay. And so that's where the

Liz Shuler: 26:30

the meaning making really comes in. Because those mystical experiences,

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 26:36

yes, your brain is open to them. It's easier to

Liz Shuler: 26:39

to make those changes, but you wouldn't be making those changes.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 26:43

without some sort of other message or

Liz Shuler: 26:46

or meaning or something that happened during that experience.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 26:49

Okay. And is is that why a lot um, recovery, like drug and um, centers are using ketamine or psychedelics now to break that habit then? Yes. Yeah.

Liz Shuler: 27:03

Because most psychedelics are non addictive,

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 27:07

They don't create physical tolerance. They don't create psychological tolerance,

Liz Shuler: 27:13

so they're

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 27:13

safer for people with addictions to

Liz Shuler: 27:16

to use,

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 27:17

but they

Liz Shuler: 27:17

they also, again,

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 27:19

create that opening in the

Liz Shuler: 27:21

the neural pathways

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 27:23

So it's easier to let go of that need for that reward, that dopamine.

Liz Shuler: 27:28

Yeah.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 27:30

mean, that's, like, that seems like the best benefit for, especially the opioid that's, that's going on right now and meth and you know, really the drugs that are killing uh, getting them to help and using, Things that just open up that

Liz Shuler: 27:49

We

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 27:49

be

Liz Shuler: 27:49

be using

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 27:50

the tools that nature is giving us.

Liz Shuler: 27:52

us, right?

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 27:54

These

Liz Shuler: 27:55

medicines have been used for We

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 27:59

even

Liz Shuler: 27:59

even know how long they've

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 28:00

used, right? For healing and for things like addictions. Yeah. That's Incredible. cool. Well, Liz, thank you so much for sharing

Liz Shuler: 28:09

Yeah.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 28:10

incredible. Um, And thanks for sharing your story about being a heart led and and what that's like for you personally. What, What one piece of advice might you give to somebody just starting out? And I know you've kind of transitioned your practice in the last year, so this is probably fresh on your mind, but what what type of advice, just one piece that you might give to somebody that is struggling with making that Yeah,

Liz Shuler: 28:34

letting go of

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 28:36

Whatever it was that you were

Liz Shuler: 28:38

you were doing before

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 28:39

be

Liz Shuler: 28:40

be really difficult.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 28:41

And leaping

Liz Shuler: 28:42

into something that feels really scary feels like there's not a lot of stability, right? So having a plan beforehand to

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 28:56

yourself that foundation so that you're not

Liz Shuler: 29:00

scared. and you can build from there.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 29:03

So for example, I

Liz Shuler: 29:04

I have

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 29:05

a bit of savings that I can live off

Liz Shuler: 29:07

off of

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 29:08

And if I don't make any

Liz Shuler: 29:09

any money

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 29:10

for a year or two, I'm

Liz Shuler: 29:11

I'm fine. So there's no fear there for me. Right.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 29:16

So making sure that

Liz Shuler: 29:17

that you have that plan first

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 29:19

is a really good

Liz Shuler: 29:20

good foundation so

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 29:21

can

Liz Shuler: 29:22

can be led from

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 29:23

that knowing and

Liz Shuler: 29:24

and that

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 29:25

that intuition rather than

Liz Shuler: 29:26

than fear.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 29:27

Yeah, because I'm sure if, if you're coming from a place of fear, that's a place of scarcity, that's going to not open up that heart and not going to, you're not going to lead with the heart. So that's really great great

Liz Shuler: 29:39

Yeah.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 29:40

Yeah. Thanks for, Thanks for sharing that. And now if people are in in working different, different ways, how can they get ahold of you? So

Liz Shuler: 29:48

I'm really active on LinkedIn. I work with a lot of professionals.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 29:52

Awesome. So you can find me at Inner

Liz Shuler: 29:54

at innerevolutioncoaching. I'm also on Instagram at the same handle.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 29:59

um, and

Liz Shuler: 30:00

and you can find my website innerevolutioncoach.com.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 30:02

com. Well, We'll link all that up into the show notes. So listeners make sure you're checking that out. uh, I know our guests always like it when people reach out to them and see how they're doing and this episode has definitely affected them. So Liz, again, thank you so much for coming onto the show. I really appreciate you and all that you're

Liz Shuler: 30:23

Thank you. It was so good.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 30:24

you for letting me

Liz Shuler: 30:25

me geek out about psychedelics.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 30:27

absolutely. I love geeking out on all sorts of things. So awesome.

Liz Shuler: 30:31

Yeah.

tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 30:32

And also a message to our listeners. Thank you for listening and watching the show today. We really do appreciate it. Make sure you are checking out what Liz is doing and and, and, what we've provided in the show notes. And also if you could do what other considerate listeners are doing, and that is giving the show a rating and a review, hopefully five stars. And cause that really uh, spread the word and get more the, the help that they need and the stories on being a heart led business. So until next time, lead

Speaker 2: 31:03

You've been listening to the Heart Led Business Show, hosted by Tom Jackobs. Join us next time for another inspiring journey into the heart of business.