Welcome to the Heart Led Business Show, where compassion meets commerce and leaders lead with love. Join your host, Tom Jackobs, as he delves into the insightful conversations with visionary business leaders who defy the status quo, putting humanity first and profit second. From heartfelt strategies to inspiring stories, this podcast is your compass in the world of conscious capitalism. So buckle up and let's go. Let your heart guide your business journey.

Grab your headphones, turn up those speakers, folks, because Amanda Harris is in the house today, here to heal your hurdles. This tenacious medical exercise therapist tickles spines and needs knees back to their dancing days. With wisdom from the University of Virginia and the healing hands of Hercules, we'll dive deep into her heart led business. So let's laugh, learn, and love the lessons of longevity with Amanda Harris. Amanda, welcome to Heart Led Business Show.

Thank you, Tom. I'm happy to be here.

Awesome. So, you know, my first question is always the same on this show, which is, what's your definition of a heart led business?

My definition of a heart led business really starts with doing something that you you're basically making a living doing something that you feel very passionate about the, like leveraging the gifts that you have to help others. And you're, you're basically making a lifestyle out of it, right? Like you're making your living doing something that you feel that You were gifted here to do. And, and so it's kind of like living your Dharma in a way, you know? I feel like everybody has a purpose in this world and I feel like I've got this little knack for what I do. I've got a talent, maybe a little bit of a gift to it. And so I feel very fortunate to be able to make a business out of it, really caring for people and doing something that fills me up. So that's how I would define it.

Nice. And I like, I like the, what you just said there too, about leveraging the gifts that we have to help others. I haven't, I haven't heard that before. And that, that's really a beautiful way of, of saying, saying that. So thank, thank you for that gift of words there. Awesome. So tell us, tell us exactly what it is that, that you do then, because it is a little bit different than, you know, like just like fitness training, but like has that medical aspect to it, which is very niche down. I like it.

Oh, well, thank you. So I use movements. We could call them exercise, but I also know that exercise comes with its own separate connotations, as you well know. But, but basically I use movement and types of gentle exercise to help people resolve lower back pain, as well as other aches and pains in their body. But I tend to focus on lower back pain. And then I believe that the thing that makes my methods unique is that my whole Purpose here is to help people not just resolve it, but to keep that resolution ongoing. So be able to manage their body throughout their lifetime. So I don't want them to just, you know, be free of pain in 12 to 16 weeks or whatever it is. I want them to be free of pain, but also know how to manage their body. If that pain returns, if they have a setback or if something goes wrong, or they find themselves in a pickle and they wind up re injured, I want them to kind of know what to do next. So really it's about learning how to take care of your body as it is now, not as it was 20 years ago, right? Cause most of my clients are in their forties and beyond. So we have to learn to take care of our bodies as they are now and then how to manage them going forward so we can continue a healthy, active lifestyle.

Okay. Oh, that's cool. And is this something that insurance pays for typically?

Unfortunately, it's not for a couple of reasons. One, I'm an exercise physiologist, which although I've had advanced training and I've worked with some really great healthcare practitioners, I am not a licensed healthcare practitioner. So insurance companies won't recognize what I do. And so that's probably the main reason that we, you know, don't get recognized by insurance companies. But the other is that of course, as a non licensed provider, I don't, I don't do any treatments. And, you know, the insurance landscape is all about treatment. It's all about recover, repair and you know, treating what's wrong and I do not just the treating what's wrong, but also, well, I don't do treatments. Right? But I, I help people manage what's wrong. And then the whole point is to do the preventative work so that they don't have to keep managing reactively. I want them to learn how to manage proactively. So as you know, insurance companies aren't going to deal with proactive management of anything, just like your car insurance company isn't going to pay for your oil changes, but, but it is necessary if we want to continue to live a healthy life. So yeah. So unfortunately it's all fee based, but I'll say fortunately cause it's less headache on me, but

The claims process alone, you'd need another full time employee just to manage that.

Or maybe two. Yeah. My colleagues in PT say I'd have to hire two full time employees to handle the insurance claims. So I'm kind of glad I don't deal with that.

And so the difference between what you do and what a physical therapist does is that you're, you're able to just kind of broad look at the root cause of what the issue is and not just where the pain is. Is that correct? Did I get that right?

Exactly! So, you know, when somebody comes in with a complaint, say about low back pain, which is sort of my, my favorite topic, just because I've been through that journey myself, and I get so much thrill out of watching people get beyond it. If somebody comes in with a complaint of low back pain, what most insurance based practitioners have to do so they have to do it, by the way, is they zero in on the back and often the source of the back pain is coming from somewhere else. I mean, it can come from an old ankle injury. It can come from a knee injury that you had a few years ago, maybe a meniscus tear or something like that, or an arthritic knee, you know, it can come from all over the place in the body. And so part of the solution is in figuring out where the source of the problem is and And dealing with that source, like actually, you know, attending to that source and not just the place of complaint. Right? So that that is a big differentiation between what I do and what physical therapy do. And I will acknowledge that I do have colleagues in physical therapy that do consider the entire body. The other big differentiator is that I don't see people who are in acute pain. So if the injury has just happened, or they're fresh out of surgery, that's when there's a lot of pain and inflammation in the body, and that's when you do need medical treatment. And that is not where I come in, because often in the acute stages, Exercise or movement can actually be irritating to that area, so I come in once they're in what's called the chronic stage, which is like a dirty word. Nobody likes to think of themselves being in chronic situations, but really that's where, in those chronic stages, as the pain level starts to decrease some, that's where we can manage the condition with movement and exercise safely and actually help people move forward.

Okay. Well, that's, that's very cool. Thanks for that explanation. So what, what inspired you to start a medical exercise practice and what's that journey been like for you?

Well, are you asking how I got into the field or how I started my business? Because those are two separate stories and they're both pretty good.

Let's go into the field and then into the business. Is that the chronological order?

Yeah, that would be the development of it. So into the field really started when I was in graduate school. I was Teed up to go into cardiac rehab as a profession. That's where a lot of exercise physiologists wind up. When I went into my master's program, I actually didn't think I was going to be interested in cardiac rehab, but I wound up being very fascinated by it. Both my parents had been diagnosed with heart disease. And so I sort of had this, underlying mission to figure that out and figure out how to help them navigate that with as little medication as possible. It didn't really work out that way, but, but it's okay. I got a great education in the process. Right? And then I, at the same time was very interested in athletic training, but at the time, the only thing that athletic trainers could really do was work with sports teams and I really couldn't see myself on the sidelines of a football field every Saturday, like that's really not how I want to spend my time. But, I was fascinated in the rehab aspects, and I didn't really want to go all the way into physical therapy. So I took a bunch of sports medicine classes in my graduate program, and I thought for a time, I might double major even. And then I, I sort of stop that nonsense because that was a whole lot more work, but I did take a lot of sports medicine classes. And so I had this big cardiac background and then I also had this sports medicine sort of side interest. And so when I came out of graduate school looking for work, I wound up for a short time doing some cardiology work, like, like actually as a cardiology research coordinator in the hospital. And it's probably when I first learned to sell, you know, you and I had a little side conversation before this podcast about, about sales. And part of what I had to do was consent patients. And, you know, that's, that's sales is helping the patient understand the risks and then see if they're interested in being in the study. So I did that for a couple of years, but it really wasn't lighting me up. I was getting kind of sad and feeling unfulfilled about it because I would follow those patients for up to 72 hours and I'd never see them again. I really wanted to do more with people. I felt like I was supposed to do more with people, with all that I had learned. And so my husband, who was my boyfriend at the time, asked me a really critical question. I was probably 27 at the time. And he said, if you had all the money in the world and you never had to work for a dime for the rest of your life. What would you do? And my answer to him was, I think I would help individuals get back on track with being able to be active and healthy and exercise. And he says, well, what does that look like? And I said, well, I can't go into physical therapy because I didn't get a physical therapy degree. And I never, you know, finished the whole sports medicine track, but I think I would do something. In the exercise field where I could help bridge that distance between like really good rehab care and a more healthy, robust, active life, whether it's in the gym or in sport or just, you know, leisure. Activities like what we classify as leisure activities. So he said, well, where would you do that? Right? Like, these are all great coaching questions. And at the time I, the only thing I could come up with was a health club. And so that's what I did. I basically got a job in a health club as a trainer and was quickly recognized as being probably the most over, qualified trainer in the building because I had a master's degree in exercise physiology, and they were all looking at me like, where did you come from? And why are you here? But but that's really what started it. And, and very, you know, very quickly, I met the lead physical therapist from a PT clinic that was actually in that business that was, that was a tenant. And she looked at me and said, you know, listen, I need help transferring people from physical therapy into these gym memberships. And she said, you know, quite frankly, there's a lot of resistance because people are afraid they're going to hurt themselves. But if you will spend 10 hours a week in my clinic, understudying me, I will pipeline you business. Well, Tom, I got so enthralled with what she was teaching me. I was spending 20 hours a week in that clinic outside my normal work hours and she was true to her word and I became the fastest growing trainer that club ever had because I was the post rehab person. So that's kind of the nutshell of how I got into that field. It was it was kind of exciting and thrilling at the time because I sort of felt like I was making my own way. I later found out there was this whole thing called medical exercise, but back then it was in its infancy because this was in the mid nineties. So it, you know, it was pretty new back then, actually late nineties, I guess, but yeah, it was pretty new back then.

Oh, that's really cool. So when you became the busiest trainer at that club, were you the most expensive trainer at the club too.

Yes.

That is, yeah.

Yes.

I hear that a lot, that a lot of trainers are afraid to charge the rates and the ones that have the master's degrees and, and the, the further certifications like, like you do, they're afraid to charge that, that what they're really worth. But when they do, they become the busiest.

Yep. I I did kind of get the feel for what the rates were in the club at the time. I'm not even sure I could remember at this point. I remember the then fitness director looking at me and saying, well, this is what most of our trainers charge. This is the one who's been here the longest and she charges this. She's the most popular. What do you want to charge? And I, I think I chose something that was like 15 to 20 an hour more than what she charged. And I remember he leaned back in his chair and looked at me and he said, are you sure about that? And I said, I think I can get it, you know, I think I'm worth it. I think I can get it. And he was like, we'll go, you know, and, and I did get it. And it was, it was great. As you and I have talked, I think you've got a feel for me now. I know your listeners don't yet, but they will. I throw myself into my sessions. I want people to come out of every session, feeling like they got a whole lot more value than they paid for. Like I want them to feel amazing at the end of every session and my clients, my in person clients all know how disappointed I get because it only happens every once in a blue moon if somebody leaves here, not feeling a whole lot better than they walked in. Like if they leave saying, You know, I do feel better, but I can still feel a little discomfort and you know, I know it'll go away eventually, but I, you know, I wish I felt a little better. I always get more down than they do. And they, they usually wind up saying, but it's okay. Like really, I'm going to be okay. It's like, yeah, but I want you to feel amazing. Right? So, yeah, I guess I just didn't feel that there was any reason I shouldn't charge what I felt like that experience would be worth.

That's great. So, you know, a lot of heart led business owners have trouble with the charging, but you don't. So what's the difference do you think?

Oh, that's a really good question. Well, I guess I can point to a few things. One is that I grew up the daughter of a dual entrepreneur pair couple. My parents owned a radio station. And my dad, you know, being the owner of the radio station and also having worked his way up. I mean, he grew up a poor farm boy in Tennessee, so he was a self made man. And and so he was the, you know, he wasn't just the owner. He was he was technically the head of advertising, right? So he was always in sales. And so I guess I grew up in an environment where a lot of times talk around the dinner table was about sales and big clients and creating value. You know, my It was often said about my dad that he could sell ice to the Eskimos, but he, he was a man of great integrity. And so he never would have done that. You know, like, I think about that now and I think, no, he never would have done that. But, but I can remember that he was always trying to do right by his clients. You know, like, if they bought advertising from him, he was trying to find the best spots, you know, the, the best impact for what they were looking for. And so he worked very closely with his sales team and his production team to make sure that happened so that he could keep those relationships going. And he was the kind of guy that could walk in the end of the post office and everybody knew him and liked him because he, he did right by people. So I guess I sort of grew up in that, in that sort of environment of you do right by people. You take care of people, but you charge what you're worth. And, and I guess I just, I just always felt that way that, that what I was providing was, was worth it. And, and you're Right? I hear a lot about that. And even in the medical exercise space, there's a lot of chatter around that. I've talked to the founder of the Medical Exercise Training Institute about, you know, how do we get professionals charging what they're worth? I, I. Don't know how else to say it other than I just feel like that's, I've always had a an idea that, that this is what my service is worth and this is what I charge. So I think it, I think it's about my environment. I think it's who I've spent time around really, you know. Absolutely!

Yeah. I think that's absolutely true. The average of the five closest around you. Right? And, and a lot of heart led people, nurturers, and so we're around a lot of other nurturers who unfortunately don't always charge what they're worth.

Well, it's interesting you say that because part of what I did when I opened my own business is I surrounded, well, I won't even say that I meant to do it. I surrounded myself with people who were really good at what they did. Physical therapists, physicians, body workers. They were really the best ones I could find in my area. And of course they were entrepreneurs too. They were practice owners, clinic owners, or the, the top echelon of their practice or whatever it was. And so I was inadvertently, well, I was, I was doing it on purpose to grow my business, but in the meanwhile, I, I made acquaintances and friends with these people who were all of that mind, Right? You know, I'm providing a premium service. I really want to take care of people. I really didn't network with people that didn't feel that way. So I wound up surrounding myself with people who, who like me had a real passion for helping others and weren't afraid to charge for it. And, and believe me when I say, I mean, I don't think any of us charge outlandish prices. I think we're at the top because we provide the best service and we, we charge for it. So

and people are getting the value out of what you provide. Cool. So what kind of surprises have come about from being more heart led than profit led in, in your career? I think you shared a story earlier. When we first met about your health club sales or the new, new program at the health club as well. You want to share that story?

yeah, it certainly could be. So when, when I was in this health club business I was very fortunate that the owner kind of took a shine to me early on. He saw something in me that he wanted to nurture and grow. And so I kind of climbed up the ladder of that organization relatively quickly until I was a a vice president. But before I became a vice president, the owner came to me and he said he was interested in creating a medical referral program and he wanted me to head it up and to basically create it. So I, I made this very intricate proposal, like really involved proposal. And it was basically the precursor to the business that I have now. And it was, it was, of course, requiring people to have a certain level of education in post rehab and, and basically allied health, like you, you have to really understand how the body works and you have to understand how tissue heals and all those things. And you have to understand. You know, like exactly what goes on in multiple surgeries, joint replacements and, you know, arthroscopies and all that stuff to be able to care for these people that would be coming into this medical referral program. And so I had this whole thing outlined, everything from like education program, you know, that the, the trainers or practitioners would have to go through all the way to the various different, like, arms of the program, like, how we would handle joint replacement versus arthroscopy versus metabolic syndromes like diabetes and heart disease and things like that. And I shared it with him and he looked at it and he, he, said, you know, this is clearly the work of a, somebody who has a master's degree in exercise physiology. And I said, I said, thank you. You know, like I thought it was a compliment. I was probably in my early thirties at this point. And he said he closed it and he looked at me and he squared off on me and he said, nobody wants what you have to sell. He said, nobody wants this and nobody's going to ever pay for this. So he goes, here's what you're going to do. And he said, I'm going to, I'm going to create this program for you. And this is how you're going to run it. And he said, this program is going to cost a dollar a day. They're going to pay for it for a month at a time. And we have a circuit. That's being relatively underutilized. That's a circuit of selectorized equipment, you know, like, what your listeners might think of as Nautilus equipment if they've ever been in a gym, right? Like, so he had an unused circuit and he wanted to put a trainer who I trained up over a weekend up there to man that circuit and basically do what I came to call exercise bio mission. And so what that meant was that if they had any sort of a issue, like if they had a knee problem or a shoulder problem, you just omitted any exercises that would aggravate the knee or the shoulder. So, it was really kind of a babysitting service. That would get you exercising without hurting your sore spot or your surgical spot or whatever. It wasn't really meant to make you better. And, and honestly, looking back on it, Tom, I can say I, I see where he was going with that. He was trying to get people who would not normally come to a gym to come to the gym and. Get addicted to some sort of exercise and then buy a membership and that would feed his membership machine. And you know what it did. I did wind up heading it up because I didn't have enough hubris to think that I knew better than he did. I just figured I was going to have to do this. And so I did it and I did it for a number of years and I helped other club owners put it into their clubs and the whole thing feeling not good about any of it. Right? Because I knew what it really was. I knew it was a membership feeder program and it wasn't really a medical exercise program. He called it medical fitness. Thank goodness. So I can now leave that away. But you know, it still is, to my knowledge, a very popular program in that gym, and it still is a very good feeder, membership feeder program. But are people actually getting better from it? Maybe in the sense that they're actually gravitating toward exercise and they didn't used to, you know, that's like a generalization. But, but what I wound up doing when I left the health club company, because I did get to a point where I just couldn't, I was seeing people who really needed me and I could tell that a lot of these people who were coming from physicians, I waited until like 85 percent of my clientele was coming from outside of the club. So I had physicians and PTs and OTs referring business to me and these people were coming into this big fitness club that saw 1500 visits a day. And they were looking around at this beautiful club, right? Gorgeous club. And they were like, Oh my God, I don't think I want to be here. It was very scary, very intimidating to them, even though the club really prided itself on being a non intimidating atmosphere. You can't help it. It's a huge honking club. So I decided at that point I needed to go out on my own and create a space where folks could feel comfortable coming in. However they showed up, whether it was with a walker, or whether it was with a limp or whether they were 30 or 50 pounds overweight. Like I didn't care. I wanted them to be able to come in and know they were going to get great care. And so that's when I broke off and I wound up doing exactly what he told me would never make any money that nobody would pay for. And I've enjoyed really good success and improving success over the past 10 years. So, it's a little satisfaction in proving him wrong. Right? Exactly.

exactly. What was that transition like then from working at a club to going on your own? Was it instant success? Easy street. Or were there a few bumps along the road?

It took some time to build back up, you know, like I said, I waited until about 85 percent of my business was coming from outside the club. And when I left, I want to say, 95 percent of my clientele came with me, even the ones that still belong to the club. And I still have clients that belong to that club and, and there's no harm, no foul there, you know, I still speak of the club very highly because it's a good, it's a good club. I just, I created, you know, like a different space and, and yeah, it took some time for it to to get really busy, like, to transition into a busy day, you know, a busy week. But I want to say by the second month I was exceeding the salary I was making at that club. And that was, I left as a vice president. So I was making a lot of money as a vice. Well, I won't say a lot of money. It's all relative, right? But I was making very good money as a vice president of fitness and wellness for that whole club company. And by my second month I was making more in my own business. So the transition in that sense was smooth, but I would say, you know, like other things all the growing pains of starting your own business. Definitely, there was a learning curve there, but you know, I, I, again, I'm very grateful to that, that company owner, because I, when I left that business, I knew my way around a balance sheet and a P and L and I understood what it meant to make money or not make money. And so I felt like, from a business standpoint, I was probably better prepared than a lot of folks. So, I'm grateful for that.

That's a really great point. We'll emphasize that a little bit more that having that education on the accounting, the business side of owning a business should not be neglected. Even though we're heart led business owners, it absolutely be there.

Very definitely like super important. I mean, you've got to know your numbers because you know, you are of no service to your people, to your clients, to the people you're serving. If you can't stay in business, you know, you gotta stay in business.

Yeah. Selling is serving. You know, that's in my book too. Like I use that quote is that that's so true. So, Amanda, we've come to our time here, but it's been a great conversation so far. It's a fascinating your, your backstory and, and where you've, where you've come from and where you're at now. How can people get ahold of you?

Well, my website is re-kinect.com. That's R E hyphen K I N E C T. com. And then I also have a great free live online workshop that I offer quarterly to anybody who is interested in resolving their low back pain with movement and exercise. I think you've got the URL for that you're gonna share with your listeners as well. And then I'm also on YouTube. I have a YouTube channel, I put out at least bi weekly content, but I try to get something out there every week. So lots and lots of exercise instructional videos, as well as educational videos on where pain comes from and why it happens and all sorts of different topics like that around basically how you can heal your body through movement and exercise. So, definitely check me out on YouTube as well. And then I think you also have my Facebook and Instagram handles too.

Yep, we'll put all that, we'll link all that into the show notes and into the comments section of, or the description on YouTube. So make sure you check that out. Make sure you're checking out what Amanda is doing and the amazing work that, that she's doing as well. And to our amazing audience, please do what other smart and considerate listeners do and give us a rating and review. It really helps spread the word about the podcast and get the ears of other heart led business owners onto the show and help them if they are struggling in business as well, being a heart led business. So until next time, thanks for stopping by and lead with your heart.

You've been listening to the Heart Led Business Show, hosted by Tom Jackobs. Join us next time for another inspiring journey into the heart of business.